Jonnyclueless
Philosopher
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I have been hearing there are some conspiracy theories about the CIA being behind the Pam Am flight bombing. Anyone know much about this one?
Pan Am 103
- Thread starter Jonnyclueless
- Start date
The Lockerbie bombing is frequent front page news in Scotland, even to this day, and not far from the front the rest of the time.
Which alternative theory do you refer to? That the bomb was believed to be drugs, as part of a CIA op, and got "let" through? That it was really all the Syrians? Is the guy in Barlinnie really just a patsie (yes, probably)?
I've never heard, however, that the whole thing was a CIA op and would think it safe to assume that the UK (and now Scottish) Government would be particularly happy.
Which alternative theory do you refer to? That the bomb was believed to be drugs, as part of a CIA op, and got "let" through? That it was really all the Syrians? Is the guy in Barlinnie really just a patsie (yes, probably)?
I've never heard, however, that the whole thing was a CIA op and would think it safe to assume that the UK (and now Scottish) Government would be particularly happy.
Jonnyclueless
Philosopher
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I haven't heard any specific CTs on it, just that it was one. So it makes me curious what the specific claims of the CTers are on this one. Looks like there may be several versions though eh? I guess I should just getup and search some CT sites, but man oh man do I hate going to those things, lol.
And I don't know if there is a claim that the whole thing is a CIA plot, that may just be my interpretation. Only thing I found so far (and haven't looked very hard because I sometimes prefer to start with opinions from here for better perspective) is about the CIA paying off witnesses or something.
And I don't know if there is a claim that the whole thing is a CIA plot, that may just be my interpretation. Only thing I found so far (and haven't looked very hard because I sometimes prefer to start with opinions from here for better perspective) is about the CIA paying off witnesses or something.
You can avoid the CT sites by starting with the Wikipedia article on the alternative theories:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altern...bombing_of_Pan_Am_Flight_103#CIA_in_Lockerbie
Here is the main article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_Am_Flight_103
peteweaver
Graduate Poster
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I think you should try getting a copy of Private Eye Magazine's publication the flight from justice.
Some believe that there are flaws with the trial, and that Megrahi has an unsafe conviction. As for the CIA though, nah. The USS Vincennes shot down an Iran airlines plane (flight 655) over the Gulf, and Lockerbie appears to have been act of revenge by arab terrorists. And there are credible allegations which point the finger at the Abu Nidal organisation.
FWIW, this is the line most of the Scottish media take when considering it. Iran/Syrian sponsored revence attack (and the worst of luck that it happened to be over a small, quiet town at the time).
NYCEMT86
Graduate Poster
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- Jul 14, 2007
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There is a lot surrounding Pan Am 103. As far as I know, the US Government intercepted information about a possible terrorist attack on one of Pan Am's flights, they weren't sure which flight. I am sure there is something about this on the web.
My family and I were directly involved with this. I did an interview with my mother about this a few weeks ago and I am still waiting to get in contact with my father.
Where were we living during 1988?
American Housing in Yaxley, England.
What base was my father stationed?
Alconbury RAF
What did he do?
He was a flight mechanic.
What Squadron was he assigned to?
I'm not sure, you will ask him.
What was the security like to get on the base?
There were a couple check points, they would stop us, have bomb sniffing dogs, and check underneath the car with mirrors.
So security was high?
I guess, it was higher than base security in America.
When where the tickets purchased for our flight?
A week before.
What flight were we suppose to take?
Pan Am 103, from Heathrow to JFK
When where you told that our flight was going to be changed?
A few days prior to our flight. I had to call your grandmother to tell her we were coming in a couple days early.
Who notified you about the flight change?
Your dad.
Who told dad?
I don't know, you have to ask him.
What did he tell you?
He told us that they got a warning about a possible terrorist attack and were advising all military personnel and family members to not fly Pan Am.
Are you aware of Pan-Am being advised of this information?
I don't know.
How many times did they switch our flights?
Three times.
What airline did we finally take?
A TWA flight that flew in a couple days prior to flight 103.
Were there any prior alerts of terrorism against Americans or British citizens before Pan Am 103?
Security was high, but I am not sure of any prior alerts.
Did anyone besides my father from the military contact you after Pan-Am 103?
No.
How did you find out about the bombing?
I was watching TV and the news came on.
What were your thoughts when you watched it?
I don't remember exactly what I was thinking, but I was in shock and I just couldn't believe it.
I hope this helps in some way. I was only 3 or 4 years old so I don't remember any of this.
ETA: Forgot the last two questions.
My family and I were directly involved with this. I did an interview with my mother about this a few weeks ago and I am still waiting to get in contact with my father.
Where were we living during 1988?
American Housing in Yaxley, England.
What base was my father stationed?
Alconbury RAF
What did he do?
He was a flight mechanic.
What Squadron was he assigned to?
I'm not sure, you will ask him.
What was the security like to get on the base?
There were a couple check points, they would stop us, have bomb sniffing dogs, and check underneath the car with mirrors.
So security was high?
I guess, it was higher than base security in America.
When where the tickets purchased for our flight?
A week before.
What flight were we suppose to take?
Pan Am 103, from Heathrow to JFK
When where you told that our flight was going to be changed?
A few days prior to our flight. I had to call your grandmother to tell her we were coming in a couple days early.
Who notified you about the flight change?
Your dad.
Who told dad?
I don't know, you have to ask him.
What did he tell you?
He told us that they got a warning about a possible terrorist attack and were advising all military personnel and family members to not fly Pan Am.
Are you aware of Pan-Am being advised of this information?
I don't know.
How many times did they switch our flights?
Three times.
What airline did we finally take?
A TWA flight that flew in a couple days prior to flight 103.
Were there any prior alerts of terrorism against Americans or British citizens before Pan Am 103?
Security was high, but I am not sure of any prior alerts.
Did anyone besides my father from the military contact you after Pan-Am 103?
No.
How did you find out about the bombing?
I was watching TV and the news came on.
What were your thoughts when you watched it?
I don't remember exactly what I was thinking, but I was in shock and I just couldn't believe it.
I hope this helps in some way. I was only 3 or 4 years old so I don't remember any of this.
ETA: Forgot the last two questions.
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volatile
Scholar and a Gentleman
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2006
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- 6,729
Following the BBC 'Conspiracy Files' documentary this week (http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2008/08_august/29/lockerbie.shtml), I'm just conducting a little necromancy.
Having watched the documentary, which presented the views of a number of people from all sides of the discussion and which examined the strengths and weaknesses of the case against Al-Magrahi, I'm beginning to think that come his review, he has a good case for acquittal.
Whilst the more outlandish theories - those of direct CIA involvement, for example - are obviously absurd, the one that strikes me as most credible is the theory that places blame with Ahmed Jbril and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, particularly given that members of his group were arrested with bombs and bomb-making equipment, including Toshiba radios, in Frankfurt shortly before the Lockerbie crash. There also seems to have been some serious issues (that even the trial judge noted) with the handling of crucial items of evidence against the Lybians, and some jiggery-pokery (more incompentence than conspiracy) by the prosecution in their presentation of witnesses (including the clothes shop owner in Malta, whose story is inconsistent and uncertain, and 'Puzzlepiece', who the BBC have learned was not a high-ranking Lybian intelligence officer, and that the CIA were aware of this fact even when presenting him as a star witness).
Anyone else see the documentary? Any thoughts on how Al Megrahi's appeal might turn out? The Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission obviously feel there is enough doubt over his conviction.
I'm certainly not in agreement that there was any kind of conspracy theory at work - if the PLP angle is true, this just means the perps got away with murder, not that nefarious elements in the intelligence services were to blame.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_theories_into_the_bombing_of_Pan_Am_Flight_103
Having watched the documentary, which presented the views of a number of people from all sides of the discussion and which examined the strengths and weaknesses of the case against Al-Magrahi, I'm beginning to think that come his review, he has a good case for acquittal.
Whilst the more outlandish theories - those of direct CIA involvement, for example - are obviously absurd, the one that strikes me as most credible is the theory that places blame with Ahmed Jbril and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, particularly given that members of his group were arrested with bombs and bomb-making equipment, including Toshiba radios, in Frankfurt shortly before the Lockerbie crash. There also seems to have been some serious issues (that even the trial judge noted) with the handling of crucial items of evidence against the Lybians, and some jiggery-pokery (more incompentence than conspiracy) by the prosecution in their presentation of witnesses (including the clothes shop owner in Malta, whose story is inconsistent and uncertain, and 'Puzzlepiece', who the BBC have learned was not a high-ranking Lybian intelligence officer, and that the CIA were aware of this fact even when presenting him as a star witness).
Anyone else see the documentary? Any thoughts on how Al Megrahi's appeal might turn out? The Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission obviously feel there is enough doubt over his conviction.
I'm certainly not in agreement that there was any kind of conspracy theory at work - if the PLP angle is true, this just means the perps got away with murder, not that nefarious elements in the intelligence services were to blame.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_theories_into_the_bombing_of_Pan_Am_Flight_103
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Yeah I saw it. Lots of self serving people were/are involved in this 'conspiracy' ... like the guy who makes electronic timers for the libyan army who was in the frame for supplying the timer for the lockerbie bomb and fingered the libyans for it but now claims the libyans are innocent and expects $200million from gaddafi if he can get their boy out of jail. No conflict of interest there then. 
The Finland connection was also interesting. One guy snitches that another guy is going to put a bomb on a plane in the hope that he will get deported and the snitch can make a move on his girlfriend. Lovely people.
Good programme. Very complicated story.
The Finland connection was also interesting. One guy snitches that another guy is going to put a bomb on a plane in the hope that he will get deported and the snitch can make a move on his girlfriend. Lovely people.
Good programme. Very complicated story.
volatile
Scholar and a Gentleman
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- Aug 19, 2006
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Yeah I saw it. Lots of self serving people were/are involved in this 'conspiracy' ... like the guy who makes electronic timers for the libyan army who was in the frame for supplying the timer for the lockerbie bomb and fingered the libyans for it but now claims the libyans are innocent and expects $200million from gaddafi if he can get their boy out of jail. No conflict of interest there then.
The Finland connection was also interesting. One guy snitches that another guy is going to put a bomb on a plane in the hope that he will get deported and the snitch can make a move on his girlfriend. Lovely people.
Good programme. Very complicated story.
And Juval Aviv, who swears he has tonnes of evidence of a conspiracy but that he lost it all. It's a very murky, complex story - and I guess that we'll probably never really know the full story of what really happened.
A W Smith
Philosopher
I haven't flown very many times in my life . Not that i am afraid to fly i actually love it. I just rarely had an opportunity to fly. The exception was on the occasion of my first marriage and honeymoon. My first flight ever was out of Newark to Boston for a connecting flight on to Ireland on Aer Lingus for a two week honeymoon in Ireland and then England. Then homeward we flew to JFK via Heathrow. for a number of years that was my total flight experience. three commercial flights total. A few years later the breaking news came on TV about Pan Am flight 103. I was wondering why that flight number seemed so familiar to me? So i went to a small souvenir shoe box we had. Found our ticket stubs from our honeymoon. And with ticket stub in hand as I watched the continuing coverage of the disaster on CNN. Holy **** my flight home was Pan Am flight number 103!
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