Original sin

[wageslave]

One day in Heaven, Adam and Eve are out having a stroll. Up pops God.

"Hi God", they both say, "what's up?"

"Kids", says the Almighty, "I've just planted this apple tree right here, but don't touch the apples or I'll kick you silly. Ok?"

"Ok" say the kids, and carry on frollicking around, merrily, as you would.

Anyway this snake pops up, and wanders over to Eve and asks her if she'd like a nice apple. Eve being all girly and stupid, decides to chomp on one, and with her womanly wiles (that she wasn't born with funnily enough) gets Adam to take a bite.

Seconds later and bang, boomshanka, the two kids are banned from Fortress Heaven to a dump called Earth and forsaken to begat several zillion begotten with ever-lengthening names until the old Testament ends.

Q: Who's the villain in this piece?

a) God, for planting the tree in the first case, crafty old codger.
b) Snake, for trying to introduce the apple-deprived kids of the joy of apples.
c) Eve, for being a woman (it's the Old Testament).

 

[Piscivore]

Q: Who's the villain in this piece?

a) God, for planting the tree in the first case, crafty old codger.
b) Snake, for trying to introduce the apple-deprived kids of the joy of apples.
c) Eve, for being a woman (it's the Old Testament).

All of the above.

ETA: Don't leave Adam off the hook, either- if he'd had the good sense to have asked god for a sex robot, none of it would have happened.

 

[The Cats Venm]

d) The Apple, for allowing itself to be eaten.

 

[pgwenthold]

Re: Re: Original sin

All of the above.

ETA: Don't leave Adam off the hook, either- if he'd had the good sense to have asked god for a sex robot, none of it would have happened.

He didn't even need to do that! God let him try out the animals for good measure, and he wasn't happy with them. If he had just taken the sheep like any decent man would have...

 

[Dogwood]

Don't forget that God lied about the nature of the fruit and the snake told the truth.

 

[Bruce]

God for giving the kids free will.
God for giving the snake free will.
God for allowing the evil snake to exist.
God for getting pissed off when his kids don't obey him after he gave them free will.

Heck, if you're going to give your clay toys free will, don't throw them in the basement if they use it. Just take away their free will and play with the clay. Clay doesn't talk back. Clay isn't evil. Clay won't blame you for all the problems in it's life, because it doesn't have life. Clay is soft, and wet, and smooshy. Love the clay. Touch the clay.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Don't forget this paradox, which I believe ends the whole discussion.

If A&E had no knowledge of good and evil before they ate the fruit, how could it have been a sin for them to do so?

 

[Bruce]

Don't forget this paradox, which I believe ends the whole discussion.

If A&E had no knowledge of good and evil before they ate the fruit, how could it have been a sin for them to do so?

Whoa. Pass the doobie, man.

 

[1inChrist]

It's Adam and Eve's fault. They heard God's commands and chose to follow the Beast instead.

 

[lifegazer]

The story of Adam & Eve is a mystical narrative. Adam represents rationale and Eve represents emotional desire or need. Both aspects exist in all beings - both male & female.
This biblical-narrative has nothing to do with a man and a woman frolicking in a garden. It portrays the distinction between reason and emotion/desire and tries to explain why emotion/desire dragged us into the mess we find ourselves in.
... We cannot resist the urge to experience what might be divine. That's why humanity explores the unexplored, regardless of the danger. That's what sets us apart.
At the end of the day, it is our "Eve" which drives us onwards through life. Not that I am advocating this as right... my point is that skeptics know jack about spirituality/holyness.

 

[Bruce]

It's Adam and Eve's fault. They heard God's commands and chose to follow the Beast instead.

Sheesh. They ate an apple. I mean, come on. They could have performed sodomy with the snake, chopped down the tree, burned down the garden, snorted the ashes, played ACDC music backwards, made wine out of the apples, gotten really drunk, and still have the nerve to ask for $20 to see a movie the following night.

I hope YOU never have kids.

 

[Bruce]

The story of Adam & Eve is a mystical narrative. Adam represents rationale and Eve represents emotional desire or need. Both aspects exist in all beings - both male & female.
This biblical-narrative has nothing to do with a man and a woman frolicking in a garden. It portrays the distinction between reason and emotion/desire and tries to explain why emotion/desire dragged us into the mess we find ourselves in.
... We cannot resist the urge to experience what might be divine. That's why humanity explores the unexplored, regardless of the danger. That's what sets us apart.
At the end of the day, it is our "Eve" which drives us onwards through life. Not that I am advocating this as right... my point is that skeptics know jack about spirituality/holyness.

So what you're trying to say is, that you are an infidel who doesn't take the Bible literally. Oh, you are so going to burn. Tell him, 1inC!!

 

[Marquis de Carabas]

It's Adam and Eve's fault. They heard God's commands and chose to follow the Beast instead.

Which beast was that exactly? Your choices are me, Lisa, or Piscivore. (Oh, and Puss, if dragons are Beasts, not sure about that one.)

 

[lifegazer]

So what you're trying to say is, that you are an infidel who doesn't take the Bible literally. Oh, you are so going to burn. Tell him, 1inC!!

No... I'm trying to tell you that you are a bozo who does take the bible literally.
The bible is so-obviously not a [completely] narrative history of events in the Middle-East that I am dumbfounded by idiots - both religious and skeptical - who read it as such.
The primary aim of a spiritual writing is to portray a spiritual truth.
You guys need to do some research on biblical symbolism and parable.

Spend the rest of your lives laughing at biblical literalists if you like, but that makes you a biblical literalist also. Remember that, if nothing else.

 

[Marquis de Carabas]

Spend the rest of your lives laughing at biblical literalists if you like, but that makes you a biblical literalist also. Remember that, if nothing else.

MdC: Puss, correct me if I miss my mark, but did he really just invoke the old "takes one to know one" defense?

Puss: Yes, dear lad, I'm afraid that he did.

 

[lifegazer]

MdC: Puss, correct me if I miss my mark, but did he really just invoke the old "takes one to know one" defense?

Puss: Yes, dear lad, I'm afraid that he did.

Your puss is an hairy idiot.
... I am neither an atheist nor a biblical literalist.

 

[Marquis de Carabas]

Your puss is an hairy idiot.

Don't tell him I said so, but I am often wont to agree.

... I am neither an atheist nor a biblical literalist.

...nor did anyone accuse you of such. You're God, we all know that, because we're God, too.

 

[1inChrist]

The story of Adam & Eve is a mystical narrative. Adam represents rationale and Eve represents emotional desire or need. Both aspects exist in all beings - both male & female.
This biblical-narrative has nothing to do with a man and a woman frolicking in a garden. It portrays the distinction between reason and emotion/desire and tries to explain why emotion/desire dragged us into the mess we find ourselves in.

No Adam and Eve were the first people. God created them to be perfect but they disobeyed Him.

We cannot resist the urge to experience what might be divine. That's why humanity explores the unexplored, regardless of the danger. That's what sets us apart.
At the end of the day, it is our "Eve" which drives us onwards through life. Not that I am advocating this as right...

The Word warns of being open minded. Simple, close your mind and open your heart. If you open your mind you could let Satan in and he will taint your heart. Open your heart, let Jesus in and close your mind.

my point is that skeptics know jack about spirituality/holyness.

I agree they are naturalist fundamentalist and nothing more.

 

[Donks]

No Adam and Eve were the first people. God created them to be perfect but they disobeyed Him.

So God tries to create perfect beings but fails, and his creations aren't perfect. Does that about cover it? So much for omnipotence.
Edit: And, he didn't know beforehand. So much for omniscience.

 

[lifegazer]

No Adam and Eve were the first people. God created them to be perfect but they disobeyed Him.

That presents a paradox: How could God create "perfect" beings who were capable of disobeying It?

The Word warns of being open minded.

Why? If I don't open my mind to alternatives, I'm just going to be one of the rest of the bozos who got indoctrinated by the establishment-truth inherent within the culture they were brought-up in.
Most of the skeptics here think that they are open-minded too. Yet if they were brought-up 300 years-ago they'd be Christians and would be hanging all the witches out there. They're just specific microphones of our time - harping a specific truth established by our time.
... In short, the skeptics here aren't open-minded and neither are you. You just represent a different aspect of the spectrum of established-truths which pulls the strings of the puppets that walk amongst the stage during any given act of the play known as "human existence".
If you were born in Tibet, you'd probably be a Buddhist. If you were born in the Middle-east, you'd probably be a moslem. If you were born in Rome around the turn of the 1st century, you'd probably be crucifying Christains.
Get my point? No? Then take my response to mean that an "open mind" is the only thing that can save mankind from establishment BS.

Simple, close your mind

Close your mind and let it be gullible to whatever BS you are force-fed?

and open your heart.

Open my heart? To what exactly? To the idea that I only have to say "Jesus loves me and has saved me" and it is so?

If you open your mind you could let Satan in

Who is Satan? Where does 'he' exist?
Are you infering that an entity exists apart from God?
Doesn't this impose a boundary upon the existence of your God?
Doesn't this boundary challenge the omnipotence and omnipresence of your God?
Is God capable of no "bad" act?
Doesn't this limit the power of your God?

Wake-up pal. Religion is a bigger scourge upon mankind than is materialism. Better to deny God than to proclaim It as a limited/finite portion of existence.

and he will taint your heart. Open your heart, let Jesus in and close your mind.

I know I'm wasting my time talking to you, whereas at least I have hope of reaching towards a scientific/materialistic person.
I have no faith in hearing any sense from a religious man. Sorry, but your ideas about God are repulsive to me. I'd rather mix with people that don't understand or believe in God than somebody who makes 'It' look like a complete f*****g idiot.