One of the Thirty Silver Coins

[Garrette]

I post this here because it seems remarkably akin to the thinking displaying in the Shroud of Turin thread. Belief becomes fact regardless of reason.

Sorry that I can't find a link, even when I search the news station's website, but I couldn't pass up posting this.

I'm watching the evening news (Louisville, Kentucky station), and they led with a piece on a local Good Samaritan who, at the request of his preacher, temporarily housed two homeless people. The two stayed a while (at least several days, perhaps weeks; it was unclear), during which time they apparently stole the man's valuables, particularly his large and expensive coin collection.

As the man detailed the loss to the reporter the camera zoomed in on a photograph of one of the coins: a half shekel cased in plastic with a nice label above it saying something like "One of the Judas coins received for betraying Jesus."

And the man confirmed it. As the picture showed on the screen he mentioned how he even had one of the coins they paid Judas to betray Jesus.

Separate from having the religious belief (something which for purposes of this thread gets a pass), how can someone legitimately believe they have one of those thirty coins? Exactly how was provenance demonstrated? What was the chain of custody from the priests to Judas back to the priests to the owner of the potter's field to.....?????

Did this real estate investor keep those specific thirty coins because he knew at the time they were of cosmic significance? And did he pass them from father to son to son to son, forever protecting them, hiding them in hidden drawers or hollow stones in the hearth?

And so now some American middle American fundie miraculously has one of them? What happened to the other 29?

Oh, well. I find it remarkable and amazingly akin to Jabba's thinking ref the Shroud of Turin.

 

[Myriad]

I have the other 29. I keep them in the Ark of the Covenant, along with the pit from the Forbidden Fruit (not an apple but apparently some sort of apricot), the towel used by Pilate to dry his hands after washing them, and God's to-do list from the Creation.

(Sorry for the sarcasm. Fake relics miss the point of religious faith so thoroughly, they make the average atheist look like an apostle.)

ETA: However, it occurs to me that what the collector might have meant was, "This was one of the type of coins that, given what we know of Roman coinage, was most likely what Judas would have received for his betrayal." Not that this was one of the 30, just that it was from the same time period.

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[TimCallahan]

Thirty shekels of silver was apparently equal to four months wages at the time of Jesus (assuming that to be ca. CE 30). This isn't much of a motivation for betrayal.

In fact, the thirty pieces of silver are the price one had to pay the owner of a slave if one's ox gored said slave, according to Ex. 21:32. More importantly, in Zechariah thirty pieces of silver are paid to the prophet in his role as the shepherd who has abandoned the sheep that they might be slaughtered (Zech. 11:12, 13). In other words, the whole thing is symbolic. It would really be nice if these people read and studied their own scriptures.

As to supporting homeless people, they could as easily be put up in a motel. Or maybe the preacher could put them up in his house.

 

[Mudcat]

There are quite a bit in this story that send my skepticism into high alert, but the big one Tim was kind enough to point out for me:

As to supporting homeless people, they could as easily be put up in a motel. Or maybe the preacher could put them up in his house.

Personally I would not have sheltered these 'homeless people' in my house for any length of time. Instead I would have collected donations to house them in motel for a while, and there are more than a few of these around here in Louisville. There's even a Christian motel on Broadway that these 'homeless people' could have been housed for the church, probably even at a discount.

I have difficulty envisioning that this homeowner and church wasn't aware of this.

 

[Garrette]

I don't doubt that the center of the story is true - that a man put some people up for a while and they robbed him. Of course, I would not be surprised if it's a lie, but right now I don't think so.

As to the victim's belief, I could again be mistaken, but I clearly heard (or think I heard) him say specifically that it was one of the actual coins and that the label on the package said so.

Regarding what the preacher himself could have done: No argument here.

@Myriad: I'll buy that Ark from you. Whatcha asking?

 

[Mudcat]

As to the victim's belief, I could again be mistaken, but I clearly heard (or think I heard) him say specifically that it was one of the actual coins and that the label on the package said so.

Without documentation backing that up... strike that, it isn't true for the simple fact that Jesus didn't exist and Judas likely didn't either.

And simply because it's a silver coin that is a type of Roman coinage doesn't mean it's not a more modern forgery. If I had been the owner of the coin I'd have had it authenticated.

 

[Garrette]

Without documentation backing that up... strike that, it isn't true for the simple fact that Jesus didn't exist and Judas likely didn't either.

And simply because it's a silver coin that is a type of Roman coinage doesn't mean it's not a more modern forgery. If I had been the owner of the coin I'd have had it authenticated.

Kind of my point.

 

[Ladewig]

I post this here because it seems remarkably akin to the thinking displaying in the Shroud of Turin thread. Belief becomes fact regardless of reason.

Sorry that I can't find a link, even when I search the news station's website, but I couldn't pass up posting this.

I'm watching the evening news (Louisville, Kentucky station), and they led with a piece on a local Good Samaritan who, at the request of his preacher, temporarily housed two homeless people. The two stayed a while (at least several days, perhaps weeks; it was unclear), during which time they apparently stole the man's valuables, particularly his large and expensive coin collection.

As the man detailed the loss to the reporter the camera zoomed in on a photograph of one of the coins: a half shekel cased in plastic with a nice label above it saying something like "One of the Judas coins received for betraying Jesus."

And the man confirmed it. As the picture showed on the screen he mentioned how he even had one of the coins they paid Judas to betray Jesus.

Separate from having the religious belief (something which for purposes of this thread gets a pass), how can someone legitimately believe they have one of those thirty coins?

Ah, I can answer that question. Humans are notoriously sloppy in their thinking. This trait leads them to be gullible, bigoted, superstitious, and occasionally willfully ignorant. I am quite sure that a fast-talking salesman in a pinch-back suit could easily convince a Jasper that a particular silver coin was actually once owned by Judas. Personally, I think the hard part would be to convince the buyer that the coin was not cursed.

 

[fuelair]

I post this here because it seems remarkably akin to the thinking displaying in the Shroud of Turin thread. Belief becomes fact regardless of reason.

Sorry that I can't find a link, even when I search the news station's website, but I couldn't pass up posting this.

I'm watching the evening news (Louisville, Kentucky station), and they led with a piece on a local Good Samaritan who, at the request of his preacher, temporarily housed two homeless people. The two stayed a while (at least several days, perhaps weeks; it was unclear), during which time they apparently stole the man's valuables, particularly his large and expensive coin collection.

As the man detailed the loss to the reporter the camera zoomed in on a photograph of one of the coins: a half shekel cased in plastic with a nice label above it saying something like "One of the Judas coins received for betraying Jesus."

And the man confirmed it. As the picture showed on the screen he mentioned how he even had one of the coins they paid Judas to betray Jesus.

Separate from having the religious belief (something which for purposes of this thread gets a pass), how can someone legitimately believe they have one of those thirty coins? Exactly how was provenance demonstrated? What was the chain of custody from the priests to Judas back to the priests to the owner of the potter's field to.....?????

Did this real estate investor keep those specific thirty coins because he knew at the time they were of cosmic significance? And did he pass them from father to son to son to son, forever protecting them, hiding them in hidden drawers or hollow stones in the hearth?

And so now some American middle American fundie miraculously has one of them? What happened to the other 29?

Oh, well. I find it remarkable and amazingly akin to Jabba's thinking ref the Shroud of Turin.

I'd check to be sure they don't have a date labeled B.C before I bought one!!!!!

 

[Elizabeth I]

Sort of a fun contemporary fantasy read along these lines: The Last Coin by James Blaylock.

 

[Garrette]

Ah, I can answer that question. Humans are notoriously sloppy in their thinking. This trait leads them to be gullible, bigoted, superstitious, and occasionally willfully ignorant. I am quite sure that a fast-talking salesman in a pinch-back suit could easily convince a Jasper that a particular silver coin was actually once owned by Judas. Personally, I think the hard part would be to convince the buyer that the coin was not cursed.

And here and there a Jew's Harp?*

*Before I am accused of anything unsavory, please check the references.

 

[Ladewig]

And here and there a Jew's Harp?*

*Before I am accused of anything unsavory, please check the references.

Disclaimers notwithstanding, you may be headed towards Trouble.


As for selling stuff, Karl Rove convinced several multimillionaires to purchase his election-winning know-how. At least the guy who bought the silver coin with a fake provenance had a silver coin at the end of the transaction.

 

[Craig B]

... ETA: However, it occurs to me that what the collector might have meant was, "This was one of the type of coins that, given what we know of Roman coinage, was most likely what Judas would have received for his betrayal." Not that this was one of the 30, just that it was from the same time period. Respectfully, Myriad

The coin in question will no doubt be a Tyrian shekel, which was the standard Temple currency. Other kinds of money had to be exchanged for it in order to make payments to the Temple, which is what the money changers were doing when Jesus interrupted their activities. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrian_shekel.

But of course these not uncommon coins will be marketed by scammers as the very ones paid to Judas. No doubt they simply mean the coin type, but the morons who buy them may be taken in. Lots of this goes on. Remember the James Ossuary - a pretty common type of bone box, but somebody "amended" the inscription on it, to make it appear to have contained the remains of Jesus' brother James.

Nor must we forget the "very same" nails from Jesus crucifixion that were palmed off by scammers on no less a person than Helena, the mother of Constantine, the first Christian emperor.

 

[Beelzebuddy]

I'm pretty sure there's been enough slivers of the true cross passed around to rebuild the true ark.

 

[gnome]

Why would the owner have it authenticated? Then he might have to find out it isn't real.

 

[Myriad]

Why would the owner have it authenticated? Then he might have to find out it isn't real.

Besides, the only way to authenticate these things is to show one to some Nazis and see if it melts their faces off. (It's why I stopped collecting a few years ago. I was offered the sling stone that killed Goliath, at a very reasonable price, but I couldn't find any more Nazis willing to sign the indemnification agreement.)

 

[Myriad]

But of course these not uncommon coins will be marketed by scammers as the very ones paid to Judas. No doubt they simply mean the coin type, but the morons who buy them may be taken in. Lots of this goes on.

Yeah. No doubt the dealer also went on about how many nines the coin has, after saying the words "plated with" very quickly under his breath.

 

[pakeha]

Garrette, it sounds to me as though someone was pulling the radio station's collective leg.

... In other words, the whole thing is symbolic. It would really be nice if these people read and studied their own scriptures. ...

Thanks for that information.

I have the other 29. I keep them in the Ark of the Covenant, along with the pit from the Forbidden Fruit (not an apple but apparently some sort of apricot), the towel used by Pilate to dry his hands after washing them, and God's to-do list from the Creation. ...

The towel.
Like. Want. Must have.

 

[Silly Green Monkey]

My family used to house migrants and homeless all the time, they didn't steal from us. Not everyone is homeless because they are untrustworthy.

 

[eight bits]

I post this here because it seems remarkably akin to the thinking displaying in the Shroud of Turin thread. Belief becomes fact regardless of reason.

Yes, it is amazing how the mind works, filling in details that were absent in the original experience, while rearranging details that were there to fit an interpretation of what happened. The story came up easily on Google News, as the one and only hit using the search string louisville kentucky coin theft.

This would appear to be your story, comprising a video with a near-transcription:

http://www.wdrb.com/story/20077073/police-couple-stole-100000-worth-rare-coins

I read it, and have reviewed the video. Nowhere does "Phil" say that the coin that is now missing was once owned by Judas Iscariot. The one and only mention of Judas, in both the written story and the video, is in a sentence fragment. "Phil" is quoted as saying:

"One of the 30 pieces of silver that Judas Iscariot was paid for betraying Christ"

That is pretty close to a phrase you remember from the story (if not as a statement from Phil), but it is a noun phrase, not a sentence. How the audio was edited is unclear. In any case, it appears that you did not hear Phil ever claim that the missing example itself was once owned by Judas. (The other example shown, the one in a plastic case, doesn't say that, either.)

As suggested by other posters, he might easily have said that it was the same type of coin that Matthew mentions. It is impossible to know for sure, without the rest of the sentence.

We are also told that the missing coin was packaged with another, apparently less remarkable, coin. This reinforces the impression that the interest in the Judas-related coin is the use of similar coins in a dramatic scene from a famous ancient literary work. That is a routine kind of collector interest. Compare touting some marvelous distinction for that specific coin. That he would believe any such thing is an extraordinary claim about Phil, for which there is no evidence at all.