Oliver Stone apologizes to Turkey??

[Cleopatra]

http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&cat=8&id=321773


However unbelievable those news might sound, it seems that idiocy has not limits on this planet.

I am reading that the film director Oliver Stone, is visiting Turkey in an attempt to make amends for his film " The Midnight Express" because Turks believe that this film is to blame for the bad image their county has in the eyes of the civilized world.

I remind you that in that film an American who violated the Turkish DRUG LAWS is passing threw the hell of the turkish prisons.

In the film the American breaks the law, does something wrong BUT he receives the worse possible treatment .

PLEASE think of the Turkish citizens that THEY DO NOT BREAK ANY LAW, they are just political opponents of the Turkish regime and they pass through a much worse hell that the one that was depicted in the film.
They are tortured and murdered in the turkish prisons.

Think of the Turkish journalists that have been murdered just because they critized the turkish regime or they tried to bring world's attention to the attrocities of the turkish government.

Think of the members of Amnesty International and other humanitarian organizations that have been murdered on duty.

I-for example- cannot visit Turkey because I am an activist of Amnesty International and I have been illegally filmed(!) protesting peacefully out of the turkish embassy in Athens more than once!

Oliver Stone is an idiot who doesn't give a dime for the suffering of the turkish citizens and the various minorities in Turkey that they have NO RIGHTS AT ALL.

The Turkish governments constitute a shame for the Western World and somebody must stop them.

 

[Kerberos]

http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&cat=8&id=321773


However unbelievable those news might sound, it seems that idiocy has not limits on this planet.

I am reading that the film director Oliver Stone, is visiting Turkey in an attempt to make amends for his film " The Midnight Express" because Turks believe that this film is to blame for the bad image their county has in the eyes of the civilized world.

As idiocy goes, I've seen considerably worse.

PLEASE think of the Turkish citizens that THEY DO NOT BREAK ANY LAW, they are just political opponents of the Turkish regime and they pass through a much worse hell that the one that was depicted in the film.
They are tortured and murdered in the turkish prisons.

Think of the Turkish journalists that have been murdered just because they critized the turkish regime or they tried to bring world's attention to the attrocities of the turkish government.

Think of the members of Amnesty International and other humanitarian organizations that have been murdered on duty.

I-for example- cannot visit Turkey because I am an activist of Amnesty International and I have been illegally filmed(!) protesting peacefully out of the turkish embassy in Athens more than once!

Oliver Stone is an idiot who doesn't give a dime for the suffering of the turkish citizens and the various minorities in Turkey that they have NO RIGHTS AT ALL.

Were you planning to give links on any of that? Incidentially according to the Commisions progress report on Turkey significant progress has been made more or less across the board on human rights issues. It also says that significant problems remain acroos the board, but it's hardly insignificant that they're moving in the right direction. According to the opening paragraph of the Human rights section of the report:

"Since 1999 Turkey adopted two constitutional reforms and eight legislative reform packages. The most recent May 2004 constitutional reform addresses a number of issues related to human rights. These include: eradicating all remaining death penalty provisions; strengthening gender equality; broadening freedom of the press; aligning the judiciary with European standards; and establishing the supremacy of international agreements in the area of fundamental freedoms over internal legislation. In September 2004 Turkey adopted a new Penal Code, which will have positive effects on a number of areas related to human rights, particularly women’s rights, discrimination and torture. Furthermore, a new Press Law was adopted in June 2004 and in July 2004 a new Law on
Associations and a Law on Compensation of Losses Resulting from Terrorist Acts were adopted. A number of regulations and circulars have also been issued by the authorities in order to enable the implementation of legislation."

The Turkish governments constitute a shame for the Western World and somebody must stop them.

I have an idea. We could tell them that they could join the EU if they lived up to the economic and human rights requirements for membership, but perhaps that wasn't what you had in mind?

 

[Hutch]

[The Turkish governments constitute a shame for the Western World and somebody must stop them.

OK...from the CNN Website...

The 25 EU leaders agreed on Thursday on a historic offer to open accession negotiations on October 3, 2005, but insisted Turkey, a key NATO ally, must move towards normalizing relations with Cyprus by then -- a sensitive point for Ankara.

However, due to the Cyprus issue, it may never get off the ground. we shall see.

 

[Chaos]

Re: Re: Oliver Stone apologizes to Turkey??

As idiocy goes, I've seen considerably worse.


Were you planning to give links on any of that? Incidentially according to the Commisions progress report on Turkey significant progress has been made more or less across the board on human rights issues. It also says that significant problems remain acroos the board, but it's hardly insignificant that they're moving in the right direction. According to the opening paragraph of the Human rights section of the report:

"Since 1999 Turkey adopted two constitutional reforms and eight legislative reform packages. The most recent May 2004 constitutional reform addresses a number of issues related to human rights. These include: eradicating all remaining death penalty provisions; strengthening gender equality; broadening freedom of the press; aligning the judiciary with European standards; and establishing the supremacy of international agreements in the area of fundamental freedoms over internal legislation. In September 2004 Turkey adopted a new Penal Code, which will have positive effects on a number of areas related to human rights, particularly women’s rights, discrimination and torture. Furthermore, a new Press Law was adopted in June 2004 and in July 2004 a new Law on
Associations and a Law on Compensation of Losses Resulting from Terrorist Acts were adopted. A number of regulations and circulars have also been issued by the authorities in order to enable the implementation of legislation."


I have an idea. We could tell them that they could join the EU if they lived up to the economic and human rights requirements for membership, but perhaps that wasn't what you had in mind?

We´ll see how well they will implement these laws. Just passing laws is easy.

 

[punchdrunk]

He should apologize for "Alexander" too while he's at it.

 

[Kerberos]

Re: Re: Re: Oliver Stone apologizes to Turkey??

We´ll see how well they will implement these laws. Just passing laws is easy.

The report mentions improvements in implementation as well. It just isn't mentioned in opening paragraph. An short list of quotes from the Human rights section:

"Turkey has made progress since 1999 in relation to the execution of judgements of the European Court of Human Rights (ECtHR), particularly over the last year."

"The Government’s policy of zero tolerance and its serious efforts to implement the legislative reforms have led to a decline in instances of torture. In the first six months of
2004 the Turkish Human Rights Association received 692 complaints related to torture, a 29% decrease on the first six months of 2003. However, the number of complaints of
torture outside of formal detention centres has increased considerably as compared with 2003. "
Based on the first sentence I'm assuming that the total amount of torture has declined.

"In March 2004 the CPT published its report, together with the response of the Turkish Government, following its field visits to the South and Southeast of Turkey in September 2003. The report notes a considerable improvement in detention facilities and in the treatment of people in custody."

"In July 2004 the Court of Cassation overruled a judgement concerning the prison sentence given in 2002 to four policemen found guilty of torture on the grounds that the sanction (11 months and 20 days suspended prison sentence) did not adequately reflect the gravity of the offence."

"With respect to peaceful assembly, official figures indicate that public demonstrations are subject to fewer restrictions than in the past: in the first eight months of 2004 12 demonstrations were prohibited or postponed as compared with 41 in 2003, 95 in 2002
and 141 in 2001."

"Violence against women perpetrated by security officials during detention is reportedly diminishing."

 

[geni]

The Turkish governments constitute a shame for the Western World and somebody must stop them.

Err why? Last time britian had dealings with turkish affaires I seem to remember we ended up with both side shooting at us. Anyway it is gerneraly accepted that turkeys human rights record has and is improving.

 

[varwoche]

The Midnight Express

Ah yes, good old Irene Miracle, bare breasted and all. (Her real name: Irene Miracle, and that's all I have to say lacking monetary inducement.)

Oliver Stone is highly over-rated and a buffoon imo.

 

[Dr Adequate]

"I was drunk, it was Thanksgiving, what can I say?"

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

originally posted by Cleopatra
Think of the members of Amnesty International and other humanitarian organizations that have been murdered on duty.

While I'm thinking about that I will think of all other countries around the Middle East where peace campaigners and aid workers have been murdered on duty by the military.

 

[Mycroft]

While I'm thinking about that I will think of all other countries around the Middle East where peace campaigners and aid workers have been murdered on duty by the military.

Hmm. One wonders what unidentified (tiny?) groups you might think of. Will you make a list? Or will you just settle on one?

 

[Cleopatra]

Re: Re: Oliver Stone apologizes to Turkey??

[According to the opening paragraph of the Human rights section of the report:

"Since 1999 Turkey adopted two constitutional reforms and eight legislative reform packages. The most recent May 2004 constitutional reform addresses a number of issues related to human rights. These include: eradicating all remaining death penalty provisions; strengthening gender equality; broadening freedom of the press; aligning the judiciary with European standards; and establishing the supremacy of international agreements in the area of fundamental freedoms over internal legislation. In September 2004 Turkey adopted a new Penal Code, which will have positive effects on a number of areas related to human rights, particularly women’s rights, discrimination and torture. Furthermore, a new Press Law was adopted in June 2004 and in July 2004 a new Law on
Associations and a Law on Compensation of Losses Resulting from Terrorist Acts were adopted. A number of regulations and circulars have also been issued by the authorities in order to enable the implementation of legislation."

Hmmmmmm

http://www.hrw.org/backgrounder/eca/turkey/2004/torture/2.htm#_Toc83096172

Torture and other ill-treatment persist in Turkey because in some detention facilities police and gendarmes (soldiers who police rural areas) ignore the new safeguards. Certain police units deny or delay detainees access to a lawyer, fail to inform families that their relatives have been detained, and attempt to suppress or influence medical reports which record ill-treatment. The special protections for child detainees are still not reliably applied by the police.

Governmental as well as nongovernmental organizations interested in this issue continue to receive substantial numbers of torture allegations. In the first four months of 2004 the Human Rights Directorate of the Office of the Prime Minister recorded that it had received fifty complaints of torture and ill-treatment in police custody. The Turkish Human Rights Association reported 692 incidents of torture and ill-treatment by police in the first six months of 2004.2 During the first eight months of 2004, 597 people applied to the Turkish Human Rights Foundation for medical attention for torture, ill-treatment as well as illness arising from prison conditions.3

In recent months, most detainees reporting ill-treatment describe beatings, threats and insults, but some also complain of blindfolding, sexual assault, hosing with cold water, electric shocks, and hanging by the arms. The European Commission’s assessment of progress in combating torture in its 2003 Regular Report on Turkey’s progress towards accession is entirely accurate when it says: “While implementation has led to some concrete results, the situation is uneven and torture cases persist.”4 Turkey’s performance this year is likely to earn a similar assessment. It will be difficult for the European Commission to declare in outright terms that Turkey has met the Copenhagen Criteria5 while significant numbers of Turkish citizens are still being abused in police custody.

I have an idea. We could tell them that they could join the EU if they lived up to the economic and human rights requirements for membership, but perhaps that wasn't what you had in mind?

You are wrong in that as well. I favor with passion the entrance of Turkey in EU because this is the only way to eradicate torture in Turkey and save Turkish citizens from the conditions of the Middle Ages they still live and they are perpetuated by those western governments that support politically and financially the turkish regime that keeps torturing people. Of course in other cases the same western governments invade similar counties and bomb their capitals. But as we all know, some western countries export violence and European countries export political solutions and civilization.

 

[Cleopatra]

Hmm. One wonders what unidentified (tiny?) groups you might think of. Will you make a list? Or will you just settle on one?

I think that he means the Palestinians that have been tortured, executed and left to decompose hung on the trees by the late,self-proclaimed Palestinian President Yasser Arafat.

 

[Nikk]

Re: Re: Re: Oliver Stone apologizes to Turkey??

You are wrong in that as well. I favor with passion the entrance of Turkey in EU because this is the only way to eradicate torture in Turkey and save Turkish citizens from the conditions of the Middle Ages they still live and they are perpetuated by those western governments that support politically and financially the turkish regime that keeps torturing people. Of course in other cases the same western governments invade similar counties and bomb their capitals. But as we all know, some western countries export violence and European countries export political solutions and civilization.

Hmmm and I am very ambivalent about the whole subject of Turkish entry even though I accept your point that the carrot of membership negotiations has encouraged them to improve their performance in relation to human rights.

As you are doubtless aware a minority of Turks, mostly in the west, are not too far behind Greece in education, economic skills and attitudes ( so the experts say ) but the rest in the centre and east are fairly alien to us in their backgrounds and attitudes. No doubt these people can change with education and better communications but secular Turkish government has had more than 80 years to change a medieval culture and they expressed an interest in joining the Community ( as it then was ) 40 or so years ago. So why has more not been achieved?

I am suspicious of those who have to impose enlightenment values from the top downwards rather than where these values seem to be a natural development in a particular culture. Ukraine for example, poor as it is, seems a far more natural candidate for eventual membership than Turkey. The fact that a deeply flawed election should produce such an outburst of peaceful and effective protest suggests that the country has the mindset it needs to move towards community membership rather than the mindset of a country whose ruling party can cheerfully introduce a law to criminalise adultery.

While I would be happy to see Turkey being given some kind of associate status, (perhaps something similar to the old European Economic Area) and would not rule it out as a future candidate I think it has not yet shown itself to be suitable.

Really I think we have enough to do with integrating the new states in the east, preparing for the new members, trying to find a way to civilise the balkan states and developing the common foreign policy without having to bother with the Turks.

 

[Kerberos]

Re: Re: Re: Oliver Stone apologizes to Turkey??

You are wrong in that as well.

As well? I fully admit that I assumed that you were against Turkish entry into the EU based on your very negative and at best incomplete resume of the human rights situation, but where else am I wrong? In that there has been significant progress? Hardly. A passage from you own link which you strangely ommited:

"In the past five years, changes to laws and procedures have significantly reduced the frequency and severity of torture to the extent that it is now realistic to hope that such deaths in custody may be a thing of the past."

which confirms my point and contradicts you statement that Turkish citizens that Tdon't brake any laws, but just are political opponents of the Turkish regime pass through a much worse hell that the one that was depicted in the film.
They are tortured and murdered in the turkish prisons.

 

[Cleopatra]

I have just received that from Amnesty International

AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL

Public Statement

AI Index: EUR 44/001/2005 (Public)
News Service No: 011
14 January 2005

Turkey: Closure of Torture Prevention Group shocking
Amnesty International has written to the President of the Izmir Bar Association, Mr Nevzat Erdemir, to express its shock at his 7 December 2004 decision to dissolve its Torture Prevention Group. The Group had been engaged in groundbreaking work in bringing justice to torture victims and its closure is a step-back in the struggle against torture. Amnesty International called for the decision to be reconsidered.

Amnesty International further stressed its great concern at reports that the administration of the Izmir Bar Association had seized files and computers from the offices of the Torture Prevention Group on 7 January. These contained confidential testimony, photos and other records related to some 575 applications from victims of torture. Amnesty International is concerned that applicants may subsequently face the risk of harassment, detention or even further torture and ill-treatment. It therefore sought urgent clarification as to the whereabouts of these documents.

In a press statement dated 13 December Mr Nevzat Erdemir stated that one of the reasons that he was closing the Torture Prevention Group was because a project it was coordinating was receiving funds from the European Commission which he claimed was on a mission to divide Turkey and to damage its national interest, including through the creation of "an independent Kurdistan". He stated that the closure of the Group was necessary in order to prevent "disasters for our Republic, our Nation and People" and that he "violently denounces this initiative [the Torture Prevention Group], supported by the European Union, which is directed, under the name of human rights, at the unity and integrity of our country". He also criticized the Group’s cooperation with international organizations -- understood to include Amnesty International.

The decision to close the Torture Prevention Group appears to be against Article 95 of the Turkish Law on Legal Practice which states that one of the duties of Executive Boards of Bar Associations in Turkey should be to "protect and defend supremacy of law and human rights and to work to have these subjects applied".

Background:
The Torture Prevention Group was established in December 2001 by the Izmir Bar Association with the aim of providing legal aid to the victims of torture and to campaign to remove all obstacles in Turkish law and practice that might prevent the successful prosecution of perpetrators. The Group provides legal support to individuals who complain of ill-treatment and torture by police officers. It systematically monitors all stages of subsequent legal proceedings and intervenes when necessary including by lodging appeals and organizing medical documentation. The work of the Group is carried out by some professional staff but mainly by more than 250 lawyers from the Izmir Bar Association who work voluntarily.

By the date of the decision by the Izmir Bar Association to close the Group, 575 individuals had applied to it. Of these the Group had worked on 334 cases, in 116 of which perpetrators had been charged. The Group has also been active in sharing its experiences with lawyers throughout Turkey by organizing workshops. The tireless and groundbreaking work of the Torture Prevention Group is a model not just for lawyers in Turkey but around the world.

Official human rights bodies in Turkey like the Provincial and Local Human Rights Boards have been largely ineffective in investigating and monitoring human rights violations in Turkey. The work of the Torture Prevention Group has therefore been especially important in documenting the extent of torture and ill-treatment in Turkey. Despite Prime Minister Tayyip Erdoðan’s statement to the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe in October 2004 that "there is no longer any systematic torture in Turkey", his administration has failed to take sufficient steps to investigate and monitor patterns of torture for him to be able to make such a statement. Only in Izmir, thanks to the work of the Torture Prevention Group and human rights organizations, has the true extent of the situation in Turkey begun to be exposed in an objective fashion.

]


http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGEUR440012005

As we say here " The greatest miracle, lasted for three days only".

Oh and say good bye to those 575 victims of tortures who had applied to the committee.

Ok. When USA will invade Turkey to protect the human rights of the turkish citizens?

 

[Ed]

No matter what, it appears that it is impossible for any non-US citizen to post anything about anything going on anywhere without a dig at the US.

Pitiful.

 

[Nikk]

In a press statement dated 13 December Mr Nevzat Erdemir stated that one of the reasons that he was closing the Torture Prevention Group was because a project it was coordinating was receiving funds from the European Commission which he claimed was on a mission to divide Turkey and to damage its national interest, including through the creation of "an independent Kurdistan". He stated that the closure of the Group was necessary in order to prevent "disasters for our Republic, our Nation and People" and that he "violently denounces this initiative [the Torture Prevention Group], supported by the European Union, which is directed, under the name of human rights, at the unity and integrity of our country"In a press statement dated 13 December Mr Nevzat Erdemir stated that one of the reasons that he was closing the Torture Prevention Group was because a project it was coordinating was receiving funds from the European Commission which he claimed was on a mission to divide Turkey and to damage its national interest, including through the creation of "an independent Kurdistan". He stated that the closure of the Group was necessary in order to prevent "disasters for our Republic, our Nation and People" and that he "violently denounces this initiative [the Torture Prevention Group], supported by the European Union, which is directed, under the name of human rights, at the unity and integrity of our country"


Oooops.

Someone seems to have lost their place on the song sheet.

It's all a U.S. plot I tell you. Or possibly a Zionist plot.

 

[Cleopatra]

No matter what, it appears that it is impossible for any non-US citizen to post anything about anything going on anywhere without a dig at the US.

Pitiful.

I am sorry you see it that way but it's USA the country that poses as a crusader for the protections of human rights. To which country you wish people to appeal? To Saudi Arabia?( Another good friend and ally of USA-- notorious regarding issues of human rights).

If it's something sad is that you dismiss facts by accusing people of anti-americanism, a sentiment that exists for sure and some times without any particular reason but personally I do not embrace.

 

[Ed]

I am sorry you see it that way but it's USA the country that poses as a crusader for the protections of human rights. To which country you wish people to appeal? To Saudi Arabia?( Another good friend and ally of USA-- notorious regarding issues of human rights).

If it's something sad is that you dismiss facts by accusing people of anti-americanism, a sentiment that exists for sure and some times without any particular reason but personally I do not embrace.

Do us a favor over here, appeal to someone else. Preferably one that is and has been pure and virginal in all of it's choice of allies thruout it's history. You might post a short list in the meantime as you make your choice.