• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Occult Chemistry

Alexander1304

Muse
A
Joined
Jan 21, 2011
Messages
697
Hello all,
Recently I've read a lot about "Occult Chemistry" and find such polirized opinions.Most defenders of theosophy assert that too many of "occult chemistry" predictions later confirmed,that is impossible to dismiss Leadbeater&Besant.Other say it is not the case.Still others claim that SOME of their work is in accordance with modern science and some is NOT.I've seen also the book titled "Possible reconcilation between occult chemistry and modern science".The key word is "possible"...
There is new book "Grand Delusion" by Brandon Murphy where he agressively defends "occult chemistry".Well,no new arguments there,maybe just citing the work of another defender of occult chemistry Stephen Phillips,who suggests that occult chemists predicted structure of superstrings(actually untested and unproved theory).

Then there is story with isotopes predicted by occult chemists before Aston,but the story is also vague,because Aston was familiar with "occult chemistry" and just chose their name for his new element

So,in light of all that I'd like to find some critical assessment of occult chemistry to form balanced opinion,and unfortunately,there almost none good,dispassioinate analysis.
On one blog I've read(by someone who is chemist),that what occult chemists described for isotopes is NOT congruent with what science NOW knows about them.
Still on others blogs/forums I've read that what they described about atoms is completely different form conventional science.

And then there is talk that Leadbeater was fraud/deciever.If good evidence for that will come true,then of course it will raise serious questions about occult chemistry.

Even on theosophy forums there is is a lot of critical talk about Leadbeater/occult chemistry.Look here(http://www.theosophy.com/theos-talk/200505/tt00668.html):

"On one hand, the evidence about deliberate deceit in
occult chemistry (from the recent study discussed here)"


On another thread theosophy thread,there is one guy from Germany,who wrote that he got e-mail from professor of chemistry who studied occult chemistry for years,and concluded that it should not be taken seriously.They had all data to formulate their claims.I'll try to get in touch with him as well...

So,I'm confused.
Any suggestiongs would be appreciated
 
Alexander1304 said:
Hello all,
Recently I've read a lot about "Occult Chemistry" and find such polirized opinions.Most defenders of theosophy assert that too many of "occult chemistry" predictions later confirmed,that is impossible to dismiss Leadbeater&Besant.Other say it is not the case.Still others claim that SOME of their work is in accordance with modern science and some is NOT.I've seen also the book titled "Possible reconcilation between occult chemistry and modern science".The key word is "possible"...
There is new book "Grand Delusion" by Brandon Murphy where he agressively defends "occult chemistry".Well,no new arguments there,maybe just citing the work of another defender of occult chemistry Stephen Phillips,who suggests that occult chemists predicted structure of superstrings(actually untested and unproved theory).

Then there is story with isotopes predicted by occult chemists before Aston,but the story is also vague,because Aston was familiar with "occult chemistry" and just chose their name for his new element

So,in light of all that I'd like to find some critical assessment of occult chemistry to form balanced opinion,and unfortunately,there almost none good,dispassioinate analysis.
On one blog I've read(by someone who is chemist),that what occult chemists described for isotopes is NOT congruent with what science NOW knows about them.
Still on others blogs/forums I've read that what they described about atoms is completely different form conventional science.

And then there is talk that Leadbeater was fraud/deciever.If good evidence for that will come true,then of course it will raise serious questions about occult chemistry.

Even on theosophy forums there is is a lot of critical talk about Leadbeater/occult chemistry.Look here(http://www.theosophy.com/theos-talk/200505/tt00668.html):

"On one hand, the evidence about deliberate deceit in
occult chemistry (from the recent study discussed here)"


On another thread theosophy thread,there is one guy from Germany,who wrote that he got e-mail from professor of chemistry who studied occult chemistry for years,and concluded that it should not be taken seriously.They had all data to formulate their claims.I'll try to get in touch with him as well...

So,I'm confused.
Any suggestiongs would be appreciated
Click to expand...

He was quite right. And Leadbeater was an inveterate liar and a pederast. Theosophy is nonsense, believe me, I know something about the subject.
 
TjW said:
http://www.chem.yale.edu/~chem125/125/history99/8Occult/OccultAtoms.html More specifically, http://www.chem.yale.edu/~chem125/125/history99/8Occult/OccultAtoms.html#qua
Click to expand...

Yes,but still there are problems.Look here:
"The Occult Chemists did make unambiguous predictions of previously undiscovered elements. Occultum, at. wt. 3; Metargon, 42; Kalon, 169.66, and Meta-Kalon, 172) have not been verified by experiment, despite Crookes's suggestion that "their work would be useful at least in suggesting to scientists the kind of elements they might still discover in the as yet unfinished periodic table." [N2 p. 52] [3] Supporters have claimed unimpeachable proof of the reliability of the Occult Chemists from the fact that, before isotopes had been reported by conventional chemists, they reported Meta-Neon, 22.33, the second most abundant isotope of Neon.[P2c p. 14][3a] But the All condition is hardly satisfied, because the two Xenons they reported are the least abundant of the 7 natural Xenon isotopes between masses 128 and 136. Although their Meta-Krypton, 83.66, is the most abundant of the 5 natural Krypton isotopes between 80 and 86, their original Krypton, 81.3, does not exist."
Yes,ALL conditions are not satisfied but SOME came true..how?
 
You asked for suggestions. I gave you some. Your desire to believe is not my problem.
 
Alexander1304 said:
Yes,but still there are problems.Look here:
"The Occult Chemists did make unambiguous predictions of previously undiscovered elements. Occultum, at. wt. 3; Metargon, 42; Kalon, 169.66, and Meta-Kalon, 172) have not been verified by experiment, despite Crookes's suggestion that "their work would be useful at least in suggesting to scientists the kind of elements they might still discover in the as yet unfinished periodic table." [N2 p. 52] [3] Supporters have claimed unimpeachable proof of the reliability of the Occult Chemists from the fact that, before isotopes had been reported by conventional chemists, they reported Meta-Neon, 22.33, the second most abundant isotope of Neon.[P2c p. 14][3a] But the All condition is hardly satisfied, because the two Xenons they reported are the least abundant of the 7 natural Xenon isotopes between masses 128 and 136. Although their Meta-Krypton, 83.66, is the most abundant of the 5 natural Krypton isotopes between 80 and 86, their original Krypton, 81.3, does not exist."
Yes,ALL conditions are not satisfied but SOME came true..how?
Click to expand...

During WWI Leadbeater, along with Annie Besant, claimed to be a member of the ''Invisible Helpers''. These helpers travelled in their astral bodies every night to guide the souls of dead soldiers from the battlefield to their next reincarnation. Do you believe that is true? Some Theosphists claimed to astrally see molecules and atoms, but they made so many claims that it is not surprising that they got a couple right. Even a blind pig finds an acorn sometimes.
If you want a laugh, read this from the boy-fancier Leadbeater himself.

''Prince Bismarck was such an one as Madame Blavatsky told us long ago. While he was still alive he laid His plans for the subjugation of Europe. You may be thankful he has no survived till the present, for his plan were far wiser than those of the me who have followed him. Long ago Madame Blavatsky explained to us that he had considerable occult knowledge, and that before the war wiht France in 1870 he had travelled physically to certain points to the north the south, the east and the west of France, and had there cast spells of some sort, or made magnetic centres with the object of preventing effective resistance to the German armies. Undoubtedly the French collapse at the time was so complete and unexpected that it seemed to need some unusual explanation.
In the course of the work of the invisible helpers on the battle-field I have several times encountered and spoken to the Prince, who naturally watches with the keenest interest all that happens; and some months ago I had an interesting conversation with him.''
 
Last edited:
I bought a book on occult magical gimmicks from a freemason flea market for 1$ and managed to sell it to an interested party for 13 bucks. He tried the gimmicks and told me that they didn't work. Probably that is why the freemasons were selling it.
 
Did I mention he was extremely upset with me for selling him a book of alchemy that didnt work. I don't feel bad he probaby got double what I sold it for
 
dafydd said:
And Leadbeater was an inveterate liar and a pederast.
Click to expand...

The fact that he was a liar is relevant, but bringing up his pederasty is an ad hominum, no? It's perfectly possible that a man can be a pederast and correct about some unrelated subject.
 
If you call your chemistry "occult" why not call it "woo."

Turning lead into gold will never happen.

Cindy Crawford will realize her life isn't complete without having sex with me before something called "occult chemistry" gets a nod on this site.
 
What do you call occult chemistry that's been proved to work..?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom