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Novak: Rove confirmed Plame's identity

DavidJames

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Can't believe there isn't a thread on this.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/07/11/cia.leak/index.html

I'm sure others will correct me but based on my shaky memory, the following is basically how things played out (paraphrasing the details).

Bush to America - I will fire anyone in the White House who was involved in the leak
Rove to Bush - er, George, I was
Bush to America - What I mean is I will fire anyone in the White House who is found guilty
 
That's a pretty amazing admission on Novak's part - too bad it'll never be used against Rove who always seems to come out smelling like a rose no matter how deep in the cess pool he's been. Interesting timing on Novak's part too. He'll be able to claim that he's "toeing the line" regarding Dubya's proposed "journalists must cooperate" idea while not admitting anything damaging to the Party under oath. (edited to capitalize the word Party, comrade)

In light of this entire fiasco (and considering the Plame affair as a security leak of a traitorous magnitude), I thought these bits might also be interesting. :)
_________

"It's true that Rep. Peter King, R-N.Y., wants an investigation and prosecution of the Times on charges of treason, and that some bloggers and others say hip, hip, hurrah to the idea, but the administration itself isn't having any. As is the case with most critics and congressional Republicans, the administration has gone no further than to say the Times made an outrageously bad judgment call weakening a program that has saved lives by thwarting terrorist ambitions. The unavoidable conclusion, as voiced in a resolution of the House, is that the Times and other papers that joined in breaking the story put lives at risk."

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_9061.shtml
_________

"In the post-World War II period, America was seen by many as the "City on the Hill," an imperfect yet nonetheless shining beacon of government of, by and for the people. Yet President George W. Bush's harsh criticisms of the New York Times and other media outlets over their reportage of covert and potentially illegal spying programs underscores once again the degree to which a major crack has appeared in America's democratic edifice.

The Bush administration's reasoning is founded on a twisted form of Catch-22 logic. The rules of that logic go something like this:


1. This war on terrorism is our new Cold War...it will last a generation or two.
2. Because we are at war it is necessary to engage in certain behaviors -- renditions, torture, domestic surveillance, secret prisons.
3. We cannot tell you what we are doing because it will compromise national security during a time of war.
4. The courts cannot review what we are doing because it will compromise national security during a time of war.
5. Any newspaper reporter or news outlet that reports a leak of these programs can be put under oath and forced to reveal sources, under threat of going to jail for contempt."
6. . . .

http://www.mediachannel.org/features/2006/06/30/affalert432.shtml
________

On the bright side, I feel like a young man again! Who knew an unpopular war, an inept President, a besieged Press, Conservatives pushing prayer in schools and war crimes could make anyone feel 19? ;)
 
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Yet another instance of the liberal media trying to undermine our national security. Don't ask me how, it just is.

This is a time of WAR, don't you people realize that?
 
Why don't we go on ahead and read what Novak actually said rather than what CNN says Novak said?

http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=15988

It should be noted that Novak said in his column that he had two sources: a primary source for the information, the identity of which he continues to withhold and a secondary source he used to confirm the information from the primary source. The secondary source, Novak says, was Karl Rove. Therefore, it is untrue to say that Rove was the source of the leak.

Novak goes on to say that he got Valerie Plame's name originally from "Who's Who". In other words, Joe Wilson is married to Valerie Wilson who works at the State Department. Which was not a secret. "Who's Who" lists Joe Wilson's wife as Valerie Plame, a person known to work for the CIA. How does "Who's Who" get their information? People write their own bios for "Who's Who" so that "Who's Who" can turn around and sell them a "Who's Who" book. Whoever wrote the bio outed Valerie Wilson as Valerie Plame.
 
Novak goes on to say that he got Valerie Plame's name originally from "Who's Who". In other words, Joe Wilson is married to Valerie Wilson who works at the State Department. Which was not a secret. "Who's Who" lists Joe Wilson's wife as Valerie Plame, a person known to work for the CIA. How does "Who's Who" get their information? People write their own bios for "Who's Who" so that "Who's Who" can turn around and sell them a "Who's Who" book. Whoever wrote the bio outed Valerie Wilson as Valerie Plame.
Whoop. This part is new to me. Did the Who's Who piece specify that Valerie Wilson/Plame worked for the CIA?
 
That's amazing. Three different names in one thread title - I believe that's a record or something.
 
Whoop. This part is new to me. Did the Who's Who piece specify that Valerie Wilson/Plame worked for the CIA?

No. He learned from Who's Who that Valerie Plame and Valerie Wilson were the same person, and that she was married to Ambassador Joe Wilson.
 
If Plame's position at the CIA really was covert or even classified, why did Harlow confirm it to Novak?
 
I was surprised nobody had started a thread on this also.

As something of a follower of the Plame story, I didn't think that Novak added much to what was already known or at least assumed.

The most substantive thing that wasn't known before his article was who his first source was. And we still don't know that. Could it have been Cheney? If it is then I think Novak is being disengenous because he says the guy wasn't a political gunslinger.

I think the most substantive thing that was new to me that came out of his article was that Rove and he have a different recollection about how Rove released Plame's name to him.

Fox news seems to be promoting the idea that this was all just a big accident. Something like Novak got the information initially by an accident on the part of the person who first told him that Wilson's wife worked for the CIA and then Rove confirmed it without realizing how serious and issue it was.

I don't know how this jibes with why the information was leaked to so many people. And, of course, there was a concerted effort to hide the administration's role in all this by lying to investigators and to the grand jury. But I think the Fox News view on this is probably something along the lines that perjury about blow jobs is a serious offense but perjurby about the release of a CIA operative's identity is just routine hijinx.
 
The most substantive thing that wasn't known before his article was who his first source was. And we still don't know that. Could it have been Cheney? If it is then I think Novak is being disengenous because he says the guy wasn't a political gunslinger.
The general concensus at this point is that Novak's first source was Armitage. He seems to fit all the clues provided by Novak.
 
One of the questions I have is: If Valerie Wilson was a covert agent, why was she using her maiden name, Plame, as her covert name? That just seems so unsecret to me. Could it be so hard to remember Valerie Smith?
 
Who said he was?

Nobody on this thread if that's what you're asking. There are a huge number of people who were salivating at the pending indictment of Karl Rove which didn't happen. And regardless of what Novak has written, or the lack of evidence, we'll probably forever hear how Rove outed Plame.
 
Bush to America - I will fire anyone in the White House who was involved in the leak Rove to Bush - er, George, I was Bush to America - What I mean is I will fire anyone in the White House who is found guilty
Bush's first statement about the leak was that he wanted to know what happened, and that if anyone broke the law, they would be taken care of. That has been widely interpreted to mean being fired, and I accept that interpretation, but he did NOT say he would fire, or even take care of, anyone just for being involved. His idiot spokesman got suckered, many months later, into answering yes to a reporter's question that framed this statement as firing anyone involved in the leak, but that's not what Bush had said. Given that there is no indication Rove, or anyone else in the whitehouse, DID break any laws regarding the leak itself* (nor that Rove was the original source for Novak), the idea that Bush must fire Rove to maintain consistency doesn't really have a strong basis.

* the only charge filed so far, and likely the only one that ever will be filed, is for perjury and obstruction of justice during the investigation, and NOT for anything about the leak itself.
 
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Bush's first statement about the leak was that he wanted to know what happened, and that if anyone broke the law, they would be taken care of. That has been widely interpreted to mean being fired, and I accept that interpretation, but he did NOT say he would fire, or even take care of, anyone just for being involved. His idiot spokesman got suckered, many months later, into answering yes to a reporter's question that framed this statement as firing anyone involved in the leak, but that's not what Bush had said.
I said my memory was shaky :), maybe if I can pull myself away from the loose change forum I'll see if I can find the sources.
 
Bush's first statement about the leak was that he wanted to know what happened, and that if anyone broke the law, they would be taken care of.

I think we're splitting hairs here, the law doesn't only state that the originator of a security violation of this magnitude is the only guilty party which could easily include a second party CONFIRMING the facts. I think Rove clearly fits into that category.

Unless I'm mistaken laws enacted to protect government security (ordinarily) take into consideration the sensitivity of the compromised information as well as the number of people involved in passing that information along.
 
I think we're splitting hairs here, the law doesn't only state that the originator of a security violation of this magnitude is the only guilty party which could easily include a second party CONFIRMING the facts. I think Rove clearly fits into that category.

That's nice that you think that, but Fitzgerald, who not only knows more about the law than both of us but also has access to a whole lot more of the facts, apparently doesn't really think Rove fits into any such category.
 

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