Norwegian paper attacks herbal medicine

[Safe-Keeper]

I am happy with my local paper today! In a relatively long article, it discusses how pregnant women make frequent use of alternative medicine, specifically herbal remedies and other natural stuff such as raspberry leaves. It cites a study stating that these remedies have no effect, and even quotes a pregnant woman as saying that "we Norwegians must have the most expensive excrements in the world", referring to the expensive alternative stuff we munch on. I mean, look at it, there's even a nice ordered list of things you should not take, because it has side-effects and isn't as effective as usual medicine!

I earlier lamented (though, I think, not on this forum) this paper's not-very-sceptical take on a supposedly haunted theatre, so this is a very welcome surprise. Unfortunately the comments feature seems bugged, so I can't add my two cents. Some rather odd stuff there already, though, for those of you with Norwegian comprehension skills or access to a translator.

Source here, in Norse: http://www.bt.no/forbruker/article857490.ece

 

[Solus]

It's the same in the US so don't feel too bad.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

It's the same in the US

When it comes to "woo", Norway and America pretty much seem to be on the same level.

 

[Fnord]

Woo seeks its own level, and expands to fill a void.

 

[Madalch]

Source here, in Norse: http://www.bt.no/forbruker/article857490.ece

In Norse? You mean Nynorsk or Bokmol?

ETA: Not that it matters. Jeg kann ikke lese Norsk; jeg er ikke flink nokk.

(And if that's spelled wrong, sorry, I haven't been there in fifteen years.)

 

[jakesteele]

I am happy with my local paper today! In a relatively long article, it discusses how pregnant women make frequent use of alternative medicine, specifically herbal remedies and other natural stuff such as raspberry leaves. It cites a study stating that these remedies have no effect, and even quotes a pregnant woman as saying that "we Norwegians must have the most expensive excrements in the world", referring to the expensive alternative stuff we munch on. I mean, look at it, there's even a nice ordered list of things you should not take, because it has side-effects and isn't as effective as usual medicine!


If you can, please tell me more specifically which herbs they are taking and what they are taking them for. I have a friend whose wife was pregnant and was prescribed some kind of maternity vitamin regime and her fingernails got much thick, shinier and better.

 

[jakesteele]

Woo seeks its own level, and expands to fill a void.

When you say woo in the context of this thread, are you saying that herbs/herbology is woo, in your opinion?

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

<snip>

If you can, please tell me more specifically which herbs they are taking and what they are taking them for. I have a friend whose wife was pregnant and was prescribed some kind of maternity vitamin regime and her fingernails got much thick, shinier and better.

Maybe, just maybe, this was a result of her pregnancy?

 

[Safe-Keeper]

If you can, please tell me more specifically which herbs they are taking and what they are taking them for. I have a friend whose wife was pregnant and was prescribed some kind of maternity vitamin regime and her fingernails got much thick, shinier and better.

The article isn't that long, so would it be OK if I just translated the whole thing? I'm going to assume no until told otherwise, of course.

For now, here's some excerpts, and the list. Also an article in English here.

A recent doctorate degree (source) carried out by Lone Holst of the the University of Bergen, shows that the use of herbal remedies is quite common among the pregnant. As many as 58% of those asked answered that they had used some kind of natural remedies or herbs during their pregnancy. This despite the little or no documentation of positive effects.


[...]

One of the most popular herbs is rasberry leaves. The herb has traditionally been used to "ease birth" or "prepare the ovary for birth". Lone Holst's doctorate degree torpedoes the rasberry leaf myth. It refers to the fact that there exist no scientific basis for the assumption that this natural remedy works at all.

[...]

Warnings also issued about herbs that work
Here are the herbal remedies which one of England's foremost experts on alternative medicine, Edzard Ernst, states has a certain documented effect, but which he still warns people to not use, because they have side-effects and do not work as efficiently as regular medicine:

• St. John's wort^WP

For use in treating mild depressions. Can be just as effective as for example "happy pills", but may ruin the effect of birth-control pills and react with other regular medicine.

• ^WPRed clover^WP

Against menopause-related issues. Correlation found with bleeding. Reacts to the birth-control pill and other regular drugs.

• ^WPDevil's Claw^WP

Helps relieve pain in muscles and joints. Can react with heart medicine and has been associated with miscarriages.

• ^WPGarlic^WP

Helps against high colesterol. Prevents the common cold and light allergy symptoms. May lower blood sugar and the effects of blood-thinning drugs.

• ^WPHorse chestnut^WP

Prevents and lightens leg pains caused by poor blood circulation. Known to react to diabetes medicine and blood-thinning drugs.

I know the translation sounds odd in places, but there you go.

In Norse? You mean Nynorsk or Bokmol?

I just mean Norwegian.

Jeg kann ikke lese Norsk; jeg er ikke flink nokk.

Only two errors - kan and nok are both written with one k.

 

[jakesteele]

Maybe, just maybe, this was a result of her pregnancy?

You know, it could very well be just being pregnant and her body/hormones doing it. I remember it being very large dosage of Vitamin D.

I haven't paid attention to any pregnant gal's fingernails for a long time, so I don't really know. I just want the child to be healthy.

 

[Fnord]

When you say woo in the context of this thread, are you saying that herbs/herbology is woo, in your opinion?

Many herbs produce substances that have been proven to be effective in the treatment of many ailments.

However...

1. Very few "herbalists" have the means or the desire to determine the efficacy or the potency of any of their concoctions.

2. Herbal extracts tend to use large amounts of alcohol (60-80%), which is usually the primary causative factor in reports of people "feeling better" after having imbibed.

3. While medicinal plants have been identified through the scientific method, the substances extracted are not "pure" and are accompanied by a multitude of other substances, and even bacteria and small insects, during the extraction process (maybe that's why they use so much alcohol?).

4. There is so much "spiritual" lore associated with each herb, that it is often the case that herbs are obtained for their alleged spiritual effects, when the real effects may range from none at all to poisonous.

A little ginseng-root tea to settle one's stomach? It works for me. But carve the entire root into the shape of a cross, pray the "Pater Noster" over it seven times, and rub it on one's genitalia to increase virility?

You first!

 

[CelticRose]

Herbal medicine isn't woo per se, but there is a lot of woo associated with it.

First, there's way too much misinformation about herbs. Many of the books I've read on herbs take their information straight from Culpeper's Complete Herbal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Culpeper Just a little out of date. Add to that anecdotes, religious and cultural uses, people trying to sell something, etc. and it becomes extremely difficult to separate fact from fiction.

Second, there hasn't been enough scientific research on herbs' medicinal uses, side effects, and possible drug interactions.

Third, most doctors -- in the U.S. at least -- have had little or no training on herbs and possible drug interactions.

Fourth, in the U.S. herbal "supplements" are not regulated by the FDA. Consumer watchdog groups have found that quite often that bottle of pills may not contain as much of the active ingredient as is stated on the label. And when you start buying preparations from China, for instance, things get really scary -- they're often adulterated with things like lead, steroids, speed, etc. Also, herbs that are known to be dangerous, like ephedra, are still legal to sell to an unsuspecting public.

Caveat emptor.

 

[jakesteele]

Many herbs produce substances that have been proven to be effective in the treatment of many ailments.

However...

1. Very few "herbalists" have the means or the desire to determine the efficacy or the potency of any of their concoctions.

2. Herbal extracts tend to use large amounts of alcohol (60-80%), which is usually the primary causative factor in reports of people "feeling better" after having imbibed.

I've been into herbs for years and I pretty much agree with what you're saying except that the liquid extracts, while 50-60% alcohol, are not taken in large enough amounts to really have any 'booze' effect at all. And, also, aside from things like kava kava there is no immediate euphoria.

3. While medicinal plants have been identified through the scientific method, the substances extracted are not "pure" and are accompanied by a multitude of other substances, and even bacteria and small insects, during the extraction process (maybe that's why they use so much alcohol?).

True, but they do have procedures for 'standardized extracts' which keep the potency uniform and bugless.

4. There is so much "spiritual" lore associated with each herb, that it is often the case that herbs are obtained for their alleged spiritual effects, when the real effects may range from none at all to poisonous.

I agree wholeheartedly that the 'spiritual lore' associated with certain herbs is crapola. Herbs are just plants with medicinal properties; nothing more and nothing less. Also, I would add that each year or so they come out with what I call the "Herb of the Year" that is highly touted to be the 'be-all, end-all' of herbs. I have seen everything from gingseng to 'shrooms to the new one acia berry(sp), etc. Herbs are big business making big bucks, and a result, they do heavy advertising to hawk their wares.