nonexistence of creator

[The idea]

Was chess created or has it always existed?

1. We take the position that chess has always existed.

2. We have good reasons for our position. We have seriously considered the alternative and we have found that it leads to absurdities.

3. Let us suppose that chess was created.

4. On which chess square is the creator of chess to be found?

5. When the game begins, half of the squares are occupied by pieces. Now, according to the rules of the game, two pieces cannot simultaneously occupy a given square. The creator of chess would not violate His or Her own rules by occupying a square that is already occupied by another piece.

6. The other half of the chess board is clearly empty.

7. The only explanation would be that the creator of chess is invisible and moves around the board throughout the game to remain on squares that are not occupied by ordinary pieces.

8. However, you could just as easily claim that you have ten rooks: two visible rooks and eight invisible rooks. No one ever sees the invisible rooks and they never affect the game, so it is absurd to believe that these invisible rooks exist.

9. The absurdity is a consequence of assuming that statement #3 is a true statement. Therefore, statement #3 is false and chess has always existed.

 

[Atlas]

Two comments.

1) There is a force of white vs a force of black.

2) White always makes the first move.

3) I like the horseys -- They're um, jumpy.

 

[The idea]

I'm waiting for a genuine comment or question.

 

[triadboy]

Was chess created or has it always existed?

1. We take the position that chess has always existed.

2. We have good reasons for our position. We have seriously considered the alternative and we have found that it leads to absurdities.

3. Let us suppose that chess was created.

4. On which chess square is the creator of chess to be found?

5. When the game begins, half of the squares are occupied by pieces. Now, according to the rules of the game, two pieces cannot simultaneously occupy a given square. The creator of chess would not violate His or Her own rules by occupying a square that is already occupied by another piece.

I lost you here. The Creator can occupy the same square as a pawn. He's done it before, He'll do it again, there's no stopping Him! He's El Shaddai. El Shaddai regularly violate His rules for humans.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

Originally posted by The idea
4. On which chess square is the creator of chess to be found?

I think the mistake lies here. Why would you want to assume that the creator is to be found on the chessboard and not outside?

 

[Yahweh]

The universe is the chessboard, everything within it is are pieces, God controlls the white pieces, Satan controls the black ones...

4 moves to mate, black wins...

 

[gnome]

Was chess created or has it always existed?

1. We take the position that chess has always existed.

2. We have good reasons for our position. We have seriously considered the alternative and we have found that it leads to absurdities.

3. Let us suppose that chess was created.

4. On which chess square is the creator of chess to be found?

5. When the game begins, half of the squares are occupied by pieces. Now, according to the rules of the game, two pieces cannot simultaneously occupy a given square. The creator of chess would not violate His or Her own rules by occupying a square that is already occupied by another piece.

6. The other half of the chess board is clearly empty.

7. The only explanation would be that the creator of chess is invisible and moves around the board throughout the game to remain on squares that are not occupied by ordinary pieces.

8. However, you could just as easily claim that you have ten rooks: two visible rooks and eight invisible rooks. No one ever sees the invisible rooks and they never affect the game, so it is absurd to believe that these invisible rooks exist.

9. The absurdity is a consequence of assuming that statement #3 is a true statement. Therefore, statement #3 is false and chess has always existed.

The analogy breaks down in proposition 7.
We have evidence that places besides the chessboard exist. There is no reason to believe that the creator of chess would have to exist on the chessboard.

 

[fishbob]

I'm waiting for a genuine comment or question.

1) You can't handle a genuine comment or question.

2) I like the horsies too.

 

[Keneke]

The universe is the chessboard, everything within it is are pieces, God controlls the white pieces, Satan controls the black ones...

4 moves to mate, black wins...

Pshaw, P->E3.

 

[Silicon]

Fool's Mate.

 

[Beleth]

Gnome's right.
But I want to take on point 8 anyway.

8. However, you could just as easily claim that you have ten rooks: two visible rooks and eight invisible rooks. No one ever sees the invisible rooks and they never affect the game, so it is absurd to believe that these invisible rooks exist.

This is a strawman, and a bad one at that. Unless you are saying that the invisible rooks created chess, they have nothing whatsoever in common with the creator of chess.

And if you define an "invisible rook" as a "rook you can't see and never affects the game", then it is just as absurd to believe that they don't exist as it is to say that they do. You have defined them in a way that makes them irrelevant, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

 

[Riddick]

The universe is the chessboard, everything within it is are pieces, God controlls the white pieces, Satan controls the black ones...

4 moves to mate, black wins...

by your own definition...this doesn't work.

God=omnipotent, all-knowing, knows the end from the beginning.
Satan=created, inborn choice of failure

God created Satan, so it's impossible for Satan to win. It's like a two-year old in a fist fight with a 32-year old man. The winner is obvious. One of them is going to die --- and it should be obvious who.

If God created the neural pathways of Satan he would be aware of his weaknesses.

I sense you have a rambunctious "Satan pleases me" attitude, so that is noted.

Let me tell you something sister Yahweh. I am going to 5crew Satan in the @$$. Your little party joke prankster guy --- yep, I'm gonna BF that mxxxxxfxxxer.

When did all this "Satan pleases me and I want to tease him" come about anyway?

 

[The idea]

The analogy breaks down in proposition 7.
We have evidence that places besides the chessboard exist. There is no reason to believe that the creator of chess would have to exist on the chessboard.

What if you had no evidence that places besides the chessboard exist? Let's suppose that you had been born inside a very large, hollow pawn and that you eventually ventured outside and saw nothing but chess pieces and, as far as the eye could see, a huge chess board.

The question is: in the absence of evidence of the existence of other places, would it be reasonable to conclude that there are no other places?

 

[The idea]

This is a strawman, and a bad one at that. Unless you are saying that the invisible rooks created chess, they have nothing whatsoever in common with the creator of chess.

What do invisible pink unicorns have in common with the hypothetical creator of the astronomical universe?

 

[roger]

Re: Re: nonexistence of creator

The question is: in the absence of evidence of the existence of other places, would it be reasonable to conclude that there are no other places?

No, it would be reasonable to conclude that you have no knowledge, and no access to knowledge, about other places.

But, and this is the important point, it would also be reasonable to conclude that anyone who presents some story about something beyond the chessboard is almost necessarily wrong about the specifics of their claim, because without access to information, they necessarily just made it up.

I'm ignoring the issue of being able to investigate and describe how the chessboard was constructed, as this could give quite a clue to the existance of an outside world, mostly because I just don't have time to get into all of it now.

 

[Atlas]

Re: Re: Re: nonexistence of creator

No, it would be reasonable to conclude that you have no knowledge, and no access to knowledge, about other places.

I don't know, as the game went on, pieces would be knocked over and then vanish. It might make you think.

But I suppose that some kind of reincarnation idea would exist because the game board would be reset after a checkmate.

 

[EGarrett]

I don't know, as the game went on, pieces would be knocked over and then vanish. It might make you think.

But people don't vanish...they just lay there and eventually start to rot.

 

[roger]

But people don't vanish...they just lay there and eventually start to rot.

That reminds me, I have to clean out my fridge.

 

[Atlas]

But people don't vanish...they just lay there and eventually start to rot.

O EGarrett,

What's with negative waves? Rot is so stinky a word. How about evanesce. Yeah, think of it like humans vanish slowly. Released into the atmosphere as a gas driven heavenward.

New game.

 

[uruk]

4. On which chess square is the creator of chess to be found?

It is usually stated on the back of the board where it says"made in China"