Steve
Penultimate Amazing
Bog standard religion. Dudes in charge interpret stuff to their own advantage.
Nobody has got ghost, according to Quran.
- Thread starter Emre_1974tr
- Start date
Helen
Implicitly explicit
I keep wanting to insert the phrase "nobody has got ghost" into conversations (which would be really odd, since i'm Swedish), I really like it. It's on my bucket list. I actually had to start a bucket list for it to be on, so it's all i need to do before I can die, content that I have fulfilled my ambition.
Gord_in_Toronto
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2006
- Messages
- 26,517
I was asking for some evidence that the Bible contained "stoning (rajm), circumcision and the headscarf". You know like book and verse.
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
There is plenty of biblical authority for circumcision, and for stoning as a judicial punishment. It's not as if you need to put someone on the hot seat for citations in support of those practices. I don't know of any biblical authority directly for headscarves, so that's something I would like to see Emre produce. As far as I know, the various Jewish traditions of head coverings are Talmudic and therefore without specific mention in the Torah.
Gord_in_Toronto
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2006
- Messages
- 26,517
I know that. You know that. I just wanted to see if Emre_1974tr did.
Emre_1974tr
Graduate Poster
Stoning (Execution by Stoning)
In the Old Testament, stoning is a method of capital punishment prescribed for specific offenses. These include serious crimes such as blasphemy, witchcraft, idolatry, adultery, and rebellion against parents.
Verses from the Old Testament:
Adultery: "If a man commits adultery with another man's wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death." (Leviticus 20:10). Stoning as the related form of execution is specified in other verses. For example, if a man has sexual relations in a town with a virgin who is pledged to be married, both he and the woman are to be taken out and stoned (Deuteronomy 22:23-24).
Rebellious Children: "If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. They shall say to the elders, 'This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.'" (Deuteronomy 21:18-21).[1][2]
Blasphemy: "Anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD is to be put to death. The entire assembly must stone them. Whether foreigner or native-born, when they blaspheme the Name, they are to be put to death." (Leviticus 24:16).[1][2]
Witchcraft and Spiritism: "A man or a woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be put to death. You are to stone them; their blood will be on their own heads." (Leviticus 20:27).[2][3]
Violating the Sabbath Day: In the book of Numbers, it is recounted that a man found gathering wood on the Sabbath day was stoned to death by the entire assembly (Numbers 15:32-36).
Stoning in the New Testament:
There are references to the practice of stoning in the New Testament. For example, in the Acts of the Apostles, it is described that Stephen was stoned to death on religious charges (Acts 7:58-60). In the Gospel of John, an incident is narrated where the Pharisees and scribes test Jesus, saying that a woman caught in adultery should be stoned according to the Law of Moses (John 8:3-7).
Headcovering
The subject of headcovering is addressed in the New Testament, particularly in Paul's first letter to the Corinthians. This passage states that women should cover their heads when praying or prophesying.
Verses from the New Testament:
1 Corinthians 11:4-10: "Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved. For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off; but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head. A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. It is for this reason that a woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head, because of the angels."
This passage has led to the emergence of the nun's habit (attire). Today, hadithist-sectarian Muslims have also adopted this practice, which is outside of Islam/the Quran.
Circumcision
Circumcision holds an important place in the Bible, especially in the Old Testament, as a sign of the covenant between God and Abraham and his descendants.
Verses from the Old Testament:
Genesis 17:10-14: "This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised. This will be the sign of the covenant between me and you. For the generations to come, every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised."
The punishment of stoning (recm) does not exist in Islam. In the Quran, the punishment for adultery has been stated as 100 lashes, without harming the skin:
Circumcision is also completely outside of Islam.
According to the Quran, humans are created physically perfect for the goals of this world of trial, and they cannot be surgically altered without reason:
Holy Quran
95:4 We have certainly created man in the best of forms.
64:3 He created the heavens and earth in truth; He formed you and made your shapes beautiful. And to Him is the [final] return.
Especially attempting to forcibly subject another person, meaning children, to surgery without their consent is entirely against religion.
Moreover, the Quran warns against attempting to alter creation without a reason such as an urgent health problem:
Holy Quran
4:118 Allah has cursed that Satan. He had said: "I will surely take an allotted share of Your servants."
4:119 "I will surely mislead them and will surely put vain desires into their hearts. I will surely command them, and they will slit the ears of cattle; and I will surely command them, and they will change the creation / what God has created." Whoever takes Satan as a patron instead of Allah has certainly incurred a manifest loss.
****
Incidentally, expressions interpreted as both a symbolic and a physical holy stone appear in the Bible, not the Quran:
'The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone.' (Psalms 118:22)
They saw the God of Israel. Under his feet was something like a pavement made of sapphire stone, as clear as the sky itself." (Exodus 24:10)
And behold, a throne stood in heaven, and One sat on the throne. And He who sat there was like a jasper and a sardius stone in appearance; and there was a rainbow around the throne, in appearance like an emerald." (Revelation 4:2–3)
1 Peter 2:4–6
"As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by humans but chosen by God and precious to him— you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house...
For in Scripture it says:
‘See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone,
and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame.’”
In the Old Testament, stoning is a method of capital punishment prescribed for specific offenses. These include serious crimes such as blasphemy, witchcraft, idolatry, adultery, and rebellion against parents.
Verses from the Old Testament:
Adultery: "If a man commits adultery with another man's wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death." (Leviticus 20:10). Stoning as the related form of execution is specified in other verses. For example, if a man has sexual relations in a town with a virgin who is pledged to be married, both he and the woman are to be taken out and stoned (Deuteronomy 22:23-24).
Rebellious Children: "If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. They shall say to the elders, 'This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.'" (Deuteronomy 21:18-21).[1][2]
Blasphemy: "Anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD is to be put to death. The entire assembly must stone them. Whether foreigner or native-born, when they blaspheme the Name, they are to be put to death." (Leviticus 24:16).[1][2]
Witchcraft and Spiritism: "A man or a woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be put to death. You are to stone them; their blood will be on their own heads." (Leviticus 20:27).[2][3]
Violating the Sabbath Day: In the book of Numbers, it is recounted that a man found gathering wood on the Sabbath day was stoned to death by the entire assembly (Numbers 15:32-36).
Stoning in the New Testament:
There are references to the practice of stoning in the New Testament. For example, in the Acts of the Apostles, it is described that Stephen was stoned to death on religious charges (Acts 7:58-60). In the Gospel of John, an incident is narrated where the Pharisees and scribes test Jesus, saying that a woman caught in adultery should be stoned according to the Law of Moses (John 8:3-7).
Headcovering
The subject of headcovering is addressed in the New Testament, particularly in Paul's first letter to the Corinthians. This passage states that women should cover their heads when praying or prophesying.
Verses from the New Testament:
1 Corinthians 11:4-10: "Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved. For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off; but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head. A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. It is for this reason that a woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head, because of the angels."
This passage has led to the emergence of the nun's habit (attire). Today, hadithist-sectarian Muslims have also adopted this practice, which is outside of Islam/the Quran.
Circumcision
Circumcision holds an important place in the Bible, especially in the Old Testament, as a sign of the covenant between God and Abraham and his descendants.
Verses from the Old Testament:
Genesis 17:10-14: "This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised. This will be the sign of the covenant between me and you. For the generations to come, every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised."
The punishment of stoning (recm) does not exist in Islam. In the Quran, the punishment for adultery has been stated as 100 lashes, without harming the skin:
Circumcision is also completely outside of Islam.
According to the Quran, humans are created physically perfect for the goals of this world of trial, and they cannot be surgically altered without reason:
Holy Quran
95:4 We have certainly created man in the best of forms.
64:3 He created the heavens and earth in truth; He formed you and made your shapes beautiful. And to Him is the [final] return.
Especially attempting to forcibly subject another person, meaning children, to surgery without their consent is entirely against religion.
Moreover, the Quran warns against attempting to alter creation without a reason such as an urgent health problem:
Holy Quran
4:118 Allah has cursed that Satan. He had said: "I will surely take an allotted share of Your servants."
4:119 "I will surely mislead them and will surely put vain desires into their hearts. I will surely command them, and they will slit the ears of cattle; and I will surely command them, and they will change the creation / what God has created." Whoever takes Satan as a patron instead of Allah has certainly incurred a manifest loss.
****
Incidentally, expressions interpreted as both a symbolic and a physical holy stone appear in the Bible, not the Quran:
'The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone.' (Psalms 118:22)
They saw the God of Israel. Under his feet was something like a pavement made of sapphire stone, as clear as the sky itself." (Exodus 24:10)
And behold, a throne stood in heaven, and One sat on the throne. And He who sat there was like a jasper and a sardius stone in appearance; and there was a rainbow around the throne, in appearance like an emerald." (Revelation 4:2–3)
1 Peter 2:4–6
"As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by humans but chosen by God and precious to him— you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house...
For in Scripture it says:
‘See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone,
and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame.’”
Last edited:
EHocking
Penultimate Amazing
There is a forum rule here, that if you are going to post metric buttloads of AI drivel, you are supposed to acknowledge the AI source of your drivel.
Emre_1974tr
Graduate Poster
While the AI only edited my writing in this last response, the information and the thoughts are completely mine.
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
None of those activities are, or should ever have been, crimes in sane societies, let alone crimes serious enough to be punishable by death.
Emre_1974tr
Graduate Poster
In the Quran, that is, in Islam, there is no legal sanction or punishment in this world for any of these, except for adultery. Indeed, this is the purpose of the test of this world; you are asked to confront yourself by using your free will. Thus, in the hereafter, you will know why you are going to heaven or hell, and you will have no right to object. There is only a punishment of 100 lashes for adultery. And that is because of the socially destructive effects of adultery, such as it leading to diseases and parentless children.
Norman Alexander
Penultimate Amazing
If AI is involved in any way, the information and thoughts are NOT completely yours. Not even close.
JayUtah
Penultimate Amazing
No, it's obviously an AI-generated response. But thanks for providing the reference regarding head coverings.
Other crimes don't have a similar or greater effect on society? Allah doesn't care about disease that aren't transmitted sexually?
Gord_in_Toronto
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2006
- Messages
- 26,517
Hmm. So women are permitted to prophesy? As long as they cover their heads?
Interesting.
dellarte
Illuminator
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2015
- Messages
- 4,235
Islam is more than the Quran ... Five Pillars of Islam ... Hajj (pilgrimage) ... Umrah (lesser pilgrimage) ... Kaaba ... etc ...
... let's face it ... it's not the full Islam without the dive into the Black Muff .
Last edited:
Emre_1974tr is a member of a sect that repudiates all that is not in the Quran. So in your words, not the full Islam. But a kind of Islam nevertheless.
Steve
Penultimate Amazing
A cult?
More kindly, a sect. Among christians the base is belief in christ as saviour.
Respect at a distance starts there. Othodox to new age rainbow flag churches, even the Santa Muerto until 1985.
But put fundies in a debate with happy clappy rainbow flag churches, it's war.
Islamic sects are in open war for centuries.
Emre_1974tr
Graduate Poster
No, God repeatedly and very clearly states that the only source of religion is the Quran. In addition, Islam is against sects:
Emre_1974tr
Graduate Poster
No, the only religious source of Islam is the Quran. That is, the words of God. In contrast, the gossips that people call hadith, the words of men, have no place in religion. By the way, all the details of all worship, including how to perform salat , are also only in the Quran:
IN THE QURAN: SALAAT FASTING HAC AND ZAKAT
"English translation, generated by artificial intelligence(Gemini 2.5 Pro), excerpted from the book "Kuran'daki Din" (Religion in the Quran) written in Turki...
forum.free-minds.org