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No more rocks for God please

Alkatran

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Joined
Nov 5, 2004
Messages
557
Many times you will run into, or use, an argument similar to: "Could God create a rock so heavy even he could not lift it?" The argument is meant to show how omnipotence entails logical contradictions.

The problem with the argument is it muddles up your point by involving infinities. This gives a number of loop holes you can use to counter the statement. For example, in maths, we can ask "What is infinity minus infinity?" and get a variety of answers depending on the context (which is why we say it is an indeterminate form). As x tends to infinity x^2 - x tends to infinity, x - x^2 tends to negative infinity, x-x tends to 0, x-x+23 tends to 23, etc. There is no reason to involve unnecessary calculus in the discussion of God's existence!

If you're going to argue, you should make your arguments clear and to the point. Therefore I suggest using statements such as "Can God subtract exactly 4 from 5 and get 0?" instead of the rock one. It's much clearer what the problem you're pointing out is.
 
You have to be kidding. You think fundies are going to be amenable to a mathematical argument? That they are willing to entertain arguments about infinities? It's much more likely that Haggard is not gay.

Period.
 
You have to be kidding. You think fundies are going to be amenable to a mathematical argument? That they are willing to entertain arguments about infinities? It's much more likely that Haggard is not gay.

Period.

I was thinking more in line with a philosophy class, haha. Debating fundies is just a way to piss you and them off.
 
I was thinking more in line with a philosophy class, haha. Debating fundies is just a way to piss you and them off.
As long as it helps give them an ulcer (I already know they're wrong so I don't worry I just irritate them.)
 
You have to be kidding. You think fundies are going to be amenable to a mathematical argument? That they are willing to entertain arguments about infinities? It's much more likely that Haggard is not gay.

Period.

Didn't you hear? He went to Camp Heterosexuality. He's all better now.
 
Could God make you slap me?

(No) Result! "See your god can't even make his followers do something they don't want to."

(Yes) Result! Call the police and press assault charges.

<I'm being facetious by the way>
 
...snip...

If you're going to argue, you should make your arguments clear and to the point. Therefore I suggest using statements such as "Can God subtract exactly 4 from 5 and get 0?" instead of the rock one. It's much clearer what the problem you're pointing out is.

I think the second one is a much weaker attempt at stating the problem - since there is no reason at all why you couldn't come up with some maths that can do that, it just wouldn't be our "common garden" variety of arithmetic. SO you'd have to include a definition of the maths you were using.

The rock is the best way to illustrate this "problem" - which has two simple solutions both of which are fine solutions depending on your faith.
 
I think the second one is a much weaker attempt at stating the problem - since there is no reason at all why you couldn't come up with some maths that can do that, it just wouldn't be our "common garden" variety of arithmetic. SO you'd have to include a definition of the maths you were using.

The rock is the best way to illustrate this "problem" - which has two simple solutions both of which are fine solutions depending on your faith.

It's extremely clear that subtraction over the integers is meant. If they insist, then specifically state you're using Z.
 
Here's another one: could god create a curved perfectly straight line?
 

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