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No brain activity

Luceiia

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Jul 3, 2002
Messages
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I'm not very familiar with brain activity issues, so I'd like to ask here for more info in addition to the web searching I'm about to embark upon.

Seems my step-brother collapsed Friday afternoon (2 days ago). He's in intensive care with no brain activity. My father just found out a few minutes ago and called, so I have very little medical info and I can't drive up to see him and my step-mom until tomorrow after work. He knows nothing more than what I've already typed, virtually zilch overall...just that there's no brain activity and it could have been caused by any of a few dozen things. More tests and stuff will be forthcoming over this week I guess.

Here's my question - Do people ever recover from a cessation of brain activity? I don't recall ever hearing of such a recovery. It'd be nice to know a little more about my brother's fate before I have discussions around my step-mother about this. I'd sure hate to be all optimistic sounding if this is a completely lost cause. Might tear her up pretty badly.

Thanks for any light you can shed on this for me. I'll go do some web crawling and will post back here with any pertinent info I run across.


Luceiia
 
Didn't take long to find some info, and it doesn't look good for Brian.

It is only when all the five described clinical criteria in a person on no opiate or barbiturate medication for at least 24 hours and with confirmation by one of the three diagnostic studies have been met that a patient can be declared "brain dead".

A "dead" brain has never been known to recover, even though heart and lung function as well as kidney function can be maintained by artificial means for many days and sometimes two or three weeks.

Modern medicine and technology can maintain bodily functions (except brain function) for exceptionally and painfully long periods of time with one recorded case of brain death lasting 45 days before heart and kidneys failed to respond to artificial "life" support measures.

No "brain dead" person shall ever be put on a coma arousal program.
Click to expand...
Coma Recovery Association, Inc


Luceiia
 
Luceiia said:
Seems my step-brother collapsed Friday afternoon (2 days ago). He's in intensive care with no brain activity. My father just found out a few minutes ago and called, so I have very little medical info and I can't drive up to see him and my step-mom until tomorrow after work. He knows nothing more than what I've already typed, virtually zilch overall...just that there's no brain activity and it could have been caused by any of a few dozen things. More tests and stuff will be forthcoming over this week I guess.
Click to expand...

Oh my gosh, I am so sorry to hear this! This is devastating news. You must be really upset right now. I can only imagine!

Luceiia said:
Here's my question - Do people ever recover from a cessation of brain activity? I don't recall ever hearing of such a recovery. It'd be nice to know a little more about my brother's fate before I have discussions around my step-mother about this. I'd sure hate to be all optimistic sounding if this is a completely lost cause. Might tear her up pretty badly.
Click to expand...

Well, it's going to depend on a lot of things. For example, what were the events leading up to and surrounding his collapse? Had he complained of a headache before hand? Have any definitive confirmatory tests been run yet?

If he's had a massive cerebral bleed (eg., like from a ruptured aneurysm), then it's a pretty bleak picture, I'm sorry to say. But, if there is an underlying metabolic cause that can be corrected, there may be hope. It really depends on the circumstances surrounding his collapse. But, usually when they start to use terms like "no brain activity" then the overall picture starts to get pretty grim.

I am so sorry for you and your family. If you get any information, please post it, or feel free to PM me if you want. I'll try to answer any questions the best I can with my still somewhat limited clinical knowledge base.

-TT
 
Luceiia said:
Here's my question - Do people ever recover from a cessation of brain activity? I don't recall ever hearing of such a recovery. It'd be nice to know a little more about my brother's fate before I have discussions around my step-mother about this. I'd sure hate to be all optimistic sounding if this is a completely lost cause. Might tear her up pretty badly.
Click to expand...

I'm very sorry to hear this.

If there is no brain activity, no. It's conceivably possible that there might be some brain activity that is simply not being measured correctly, but this is unlikely with modern technology.

I don't know how much of an empath you are, but if you are to any degree, steel yourself for the visit. I've been around live people, and I've been around dead people, but the first time I was around somebody in this state, it freaked me out.
 
Sorry to hear about this - my sympathies to you and family.

Have the doctors distinguished between clinical and electrical activity?-
to explain, there may be no signs of clinical brain activity (they will perform a series of tests to see if the brain stem is still functioning, and these tests (by 2 doctors)are repeated usually after 24 hours to confirm the previous findings). In these circumstances brain stem death may be the diagnosis, and if he is taken off the ventilator he would stop breathing. His heart will continue to beat, but without oxygen, it will soon go into cardiac arrest and he would be clinically dead. This is what happens when people "turn off" the life support.
Alternatively they may be discussing the fact that his electroencephalogram shows no electrical activity. This is a bad sign, but possibly recoverable depending on what caused the initial brain insult (eg drug or metabolic problems).

Either way it sounds pretty gloomy I'm afraid. If he has had a brain scan this will show if he had a mechanical reason for his coma such as a haemorrhage. If he there is no clinical brain activity, the doctors may discuss turning off life support with the family, or discussing about organ donation options.
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Sorry for the lack of a timely update on this. I found out late last night that things are indeed very bleak. Here's the story to the best of my knowledge:

On Friday last he collapsed for unknown reasons. During this state of collapse his heart either stopped or went into arrhythmia for a significant length of time (I have no idea how long). The oxygen deprivation that occurred during the 'event' basically killed his brain. He was defibrillated 3 times before his heartbeat went back to normal. Then he was transported to the hospital.

At some point between arrival at the hospital and last evening (Monday) they ran 2 EEG's and a CAT-scan on his brain. With the EEG monitor turned up to maximum they were just barely able to detect a tiny bit of brain wave activity. I have no idea what sort of wave(s) they did find though. The CAT showed massive brain swelling of the brain tissue (not the tissue surrounding the brain). Apparently this swelling has nowhere to go except downward, applying pressure to the brain stem and top of the spinal cord. That probably accounts for the lack of a stable body temp for the first day or so he was hospitalized (this has since stabilized but I'm not sure how it was accomplished) and is likely the reason he's on a lung machine (ventilator). I guess his heart and kidneys are still operating.

My sister informed me that the swelling is great enough that it has begun to bring about rupturing/death of the cells near the top of his brain and that those dead cells will create a poisoned atmosphere for the surrounding cells, basically creating a cascading death of the entire brain within 24-48 hours.

That's all I know. I have tried to include as much medical/scientific info as I could. I figure if I came here hoping to find some info about this, then perhaps someone else will find this info useful too. I hope so.

Thanks much for the kind words and knowledgeable input.


Luceiia
 
Sorry to hear that. I can't imagine what you're going through, but thank you for the information. It must drive one a bit crazy to not know why he collapsed.

My condolences. Take care,

Eos
 
To tie up the loose ends without intending to make this an emotional bummer, here's the end of the tale:

Yesterday afternoon the neurologist ran another EEG which showed zero improvement in brain wave activity. Another CAT was also done that showed less swelling. With a zero percent chance of Brian ever being more than a human shell, the decision was made to remove the ventilator.

He was expected to pass quickly, but he kept going for another 15 hours. He finally expired around an hour ago.

Apparently these types of cases take one of three routes once the life-support machines are unplugged - 1) they pass within a very few minutes, 2) their vitals level off for a while, with blood pressure being much lower than normal but apparently still able to sustain life, then it begins to dip down until they pass away, or 3) their vitals level off at a fairly normal level and they remain in a vegetative state for possibly a very long time. I was dreading he'd wind up in category 3.

Not a fun thread, but informative for some, I hope.


Luceiia
 
My deepest sympathy. I am not a doctor but I assume by now you have talked with Your brothers caregivers and specialists.

I live in Florida and there is a battle between a husband and his wife's family and the state of Florida. She has been in a " persistive vegetative state " for ten years. She has limbic function but is basically not with us anymore. I hope you and your family may reach accommodation and do what you think is right. I hope he had a "Living Will" , I do many don't .All who read this should acquaint themselves with the concept. I do not wish to sound cold.

Again I truly , honestly grieve with You and I hope the best for you and Your family.

Remember the good times You had with Him..

edit to add: I apoligize for the untimly post of my remarks I fell asleep in the chair whirst responding again My sympathies.
 
Luceiia-

My sincere condolencies.
May I ask, did you ever discuss the question of organ donorship?

When my cousin died tragically young, his organs went to save at least two lives. This proved to be a great consolation to his widow.

For others finding themselves in similar situations- (gods forfend)- please do consider this. WE never know when we might be the ones saved by such donations.
 
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