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Newspaper's "Religion" section runs article on atheism

Elizabeth I

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Elizabeth I
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The San Antonio Express-News published this article in the Saturday, October 29, "Religion and Spirituality" section: "Faith is just another illusion to magician." Featuring Penn Jillette, it discusses how magicians are often led to skepticism and atheism by studying their craft.

There is also a sidebar, "Penn lists his ten principles," in which Jillette talks about ten moral principles that can arise from rational, skeptical thought rather than being handed down by a mythical deity.

I am so impressed that a metropolitan daily would have the balls to publish an article that, if not pro-atheism, is at least factual and atheism-neutral, in their religion section (instead of the "Life" section) that I think they need encouragement. I have just e-mailed the following comment:

Dear sirs: thank you for including a feature on skepticism and atheism in the "Religion and Spirituality" section ("Faith is just another illusion to magician," Saturday, October 29.) Belief in religion is a form of magical thinking that, unfortunately, opens many people's minds to other illogical beliefs.

I am sure you will be vilified for publishing this story, because religion has a protected status in our society, and even people who would rightly point out the ridiculousness of believing in witches will give religion a pass because it is so ingrained in the culture. Please take this as supporting, and appreciating, your attempt to offer another - I would say more rational - viewpoint.
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Please encourage more rational stories by sending your support via e-mail to letters@express-news.net, copy to Public Editor Bob Richter, brichter@express-news.net. (Richter is going to have to fade most of the heat from the religionists.)

Thanks!
 
Elizabeth I said:
Please encourage more rational stories [...]
Thanks!
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No thanks. Rational stories are very often unimaginative, boring tales chasing each other in a small closed box.
Realism in the visual arts and literature refers to the general attempt to depict subjects "in accordance with secular, empirical rules", as they are considered to exist in third person objective reality, without embellishment or interpretation. As such, the approach inherently implies a belief that such reality is ontologically independent of man's conceptual schemes, linguistic practices and beliefs, and thus can be known (or knowable) to the artist, who can in turn represent this 'reality' faithfully.
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Once again, no thanks.
 
Thanks Elizabeth. Interesting article and I fired off a letter.
 
Gawdzilla said:
Epix rejection of reality. This is not news.
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Not only that, but he assumes "rational" equals the artistic definition of Realism (skipping over every other meaning of the term while he's at it.)

That's just plain weird.
 
So epix rejects stories in newspapers being reported in a rational manner?

My god, I finally understand why Fox News has viewers.
 
His ten principles are interesting.

I was actually thinking about this today ... because more and more I think I'm seeing that religious peeps simply suffer from a need to "grow up" and mature when it comes to morality, ethics, whatever.

You tell a toddler not to play with fire, because they have no respect for the fire. They don't understand it. They could harm themselves and others. But you don't keep fire away from them their entire life. At some point, you teach them to respect fire, use it properly .... it's use is amazing in it's scope, from practical application to pleasure.

But you don't keep that fire away from people their entire lives.

I think for the most part, religious peeps simply haven't gotten past the "don't use fire" idea and think that it applies ALWAYS, their entire life, no matter what. So they cling to Ten Commandments, and laws, and rules, and this and that. They try to stamp out every instance of others playing with fire, or form little communities where no one is allowed to play with fire. "You play with fire, you bad man." yada yada. Secretly, they might want to play with fire, but they won't let themselves because Big Daddy said don't play with fire when they were little, so they will never play with it, even though they want to .... so they will seek to destroy others who DO allow themselves to play with it. And on down the line it goes.

And then it gets more complicated ..... "well, if we disobey Big Daddy, then we lose our child like nature where we believe in all these things, how Pokemon are real monsters, and the boogeyman is just waiting to attack me in the shadows. And children are so beautiful, with their imagination and what they see as possible in the world. I don't wanna grow up and learn to handle fire properly ! I just wanna follow the rules and keep my childlike nature and imagination ...." .... never realizing that they can actually keep that wunderlust and imagination and yes, still grow up and accept that some of them want to play with fire and actually use it.

There is a point in time where the Ten Commandments and things like that are sometimes applicable .... and I think it's linked to "maturity". Anymore, when I see adults who won't let their children play with Harry Potter, or they're bustin out the hate on homosexuals, abortion, sex before marriage, etc ..... I just see a child who refuses to grow up and realize that the rules they were taught when they are 3 years old don't apply always when they're 30.

And when they talk about, "well without these rules .... society would go crazy ! We'd be killing everyone, and living in debauchery !" ... all they're saying is that, again, they need to be following rules from Big Daddy or they would end up killing others. They're essentially saying that they are lawless and don't care about themselves or others ... and the only reason they don't go apesh!t is because of some words they were taught and the fear instilled in them. Some of us don't need to be reminded always of rules in order to keep from killing, lying, cheating, stealing, etc. Some of us have grown up and learned to do these things naturally, because we didn't have to be forced to value life by always being reminded or intimidated to do so ....

[/rant]
 
Ysidro said:
Not only that, but he assumes "rational" equals the artistic definition of Realism (skipping over every other meaning of the term while he's at it.)

That's just plain weird.
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Oh, but it gets even better; The gallery that he linked to is not one of of a Realist painter at all. While his images are described as 'realistic', it says right there, "Howard David Johnson embraces leading edge digital media in the creation of his depictions of fantasy, folklore, mythology, legend, religion, and heroic history." Pretty much the antithesis of Realism. A fail within a fail?
 
What will perhaps be most interesting will be the letters to the editor complaining.
 
I think Penn Jillette is one of the finest Americans who've ever lived, but it bothers me a little that he has been going around lately talking about "atheist principles." I really think he should define them as HIS principles. They are fine principles indeed, but they have nothing whatsoever to do with the absence of a superstitious belief.
 
VanillaCone said:
I think Penn Jillette is one of the finest Americans who've ever lived, but it bothers me a little that he has been going around lately talking about "atheist principles." I really think he should define them as HIS principles. They are fine principles indeed, but they have nothing whatsoever to do with the absence of a superstitious belief.
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He makes his living making a scene. It pays his bills.
 
Gawdzilla said:
He makes his living making a scene. It pays his bills.
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Usually I would say more power to him, but I don't think his suggesting that atheists share a common set of core principles is going to help anyone dispel widespread misconceptions about atheists or help Mr. Jillette sell more copies of his book. This business about atheist principles misrepresents what atheism actually is, which kinda surprises me coming from such an honest person. I mean honest when he isn't making his living as a professional liar.
 
epix said:
No thanks. Rational stories are very often unimaginative, boring tales chasing each other in a small closed box.
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That makes sense when talking about fiction, but this is a newspaper we're talking about here. Reporters aren't artists.
 
Well, it sounds very interesting but Penn Jillette's list of principles are just wrong in so many ways. Firstly because it amounts to some claim that his rational thinking has led to "revealed" morality. At least, he doesn't explain how he derived these rules. Let's look at them:


1. The highest ideals are human intelligence, creativity and love. Respect these above all.
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Aside from sounding happy-clappy how does he know that these are the highest ideals? Why not athletic prowess? Do the Olympic ideals of higher, further, faster (or whatever they are) not fit in?

2. Do not put things or even ideas above other human beings. (Let's scream at each other about Kindle versus iPad, solar versus nuclear, Republican versus Libertarian, Garth Brooks versus Sun Ra — but when your house is on fire, I'll be there to help.)
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Well, this muddled sentence sounds as though there is no drawback to putting ideas or things above other humans: even if we put ideas above people, Penn Jillette will still be there to help. Presumably to get people out but not put the fire out because that would be risking life to protect property. And that would violate the principle.

3. Say what you mean, even when talking to yourself. (What used to be an oath to (G)od is now quite simply respecting yourself.)
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I presume the newspaper changed his original "god" to "(G)od". Using the diminutive for the Judeo-Christian cosmic entity is annoying. It is clear he is talking about God and not "a god" even if God is fictional. I wish he would say what he means. A good style guide could help Penn Jillette.

4. Put aside some time to rest and think. (If you're religious, that might be the Sabbath; if you're a Vegas magician, that'll be the day with the lowest grosses.)
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I am not sure what he means by this. Does he mean take a day off when you are less likely to make lots of money? I can see that he doesn't live on low wages with hungry mouths to feed. It might be alright for some but not everyone has this luxury.

5. Be there for your family. Love your parents, your partner, and your children. (Love is deeper than honor, and parents matter, but so do spouse and children.)
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Parents and family might not always deserve love especially if they are/were abusive. It is all well and good if these principles are applied reciprocally but this doesn't always happen. Is Mr Jillette going to make these principles clearer somewhere?

6. Respect and protect all human life. (Many believe that “Thou shalt not kill” only refers to people in the same tribe. I say it's all human life.)
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Dare I ask, but what is Penn Jillette's stance on abortion? Now, I am in favour of abortion but Penn Jillette can't toss off this little crowd-pleaser and expect not to be challenged on it. Similarly does he think that the lives of say, Hitler or Stalin should be respected as much as, say, Bayard Rustin?

7. Keep your promises. (If you can't be sexually exclusive to your spouse, don't make that deal.)
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What if you agreed to be sexually inexclusive?

8. Don't steal. (This includes magic tricks and jokes — you know who you are!)
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I've heard that one before. Attribution, please!

9. Don't lie. (You know, unless you're doing magic tricks and it's part of your job. Does that make it OK for politicians, too?)
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What if an axe-murderer comes to my door looking for the guy I am sheltering from the axe-murderer? Do I say, "Sure he's here. He's hiding under the bed."?

10. Don't waste too much time wishing, hoping, and being envious; it'll make you bugnutty.
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Well, I hope he's not gonna dream on thinking his ten principles will be applied with much fervour.


Read more: http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/re...s-his-10-principles-2242081.php#ixzz1cDu7gaLe


:)
 
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