New Zealanders are refusing to turn over guns under new law

[applecorped]

https://reason.com/2019/07/08/noncompliance-kneecaps-new-zealands-gun-control-scheme/








Noncompliance Kneecaps New Zealand's Gun Control Scheme
As of last week, only around 700 weapons had been turned over.



Once again, responding to a horrendous crime by inflicting knee-jerk, authoritarian restrictions on innocent people proves to be an ineffective means of convincing people to obey. Specifically, New Zealand's government—which also stepped up censorship and domestic surveillance after bloody attacks on two Christchurch mosques earlier this year—is running into stiff resistance to new gun rules from firearms owners who are slow to surrender now-prohibited weapons and will probably never turn them in.

 

[Norman Alexander]

Yeah, reliable journal of record.

 

[cullennz]

Yeah, reliable journal of record.

TBF

It is being reported that she is looking a bit low (Though I doubt that number)

Frankly the cash the govt are handing out is a joke and most people are over the initial shock.

If you don't compensate people properly for changing the law on what is legal on gut reaction this stuff happens.

Fast tracked law tends to be bad law.

 

[cullennz]

Couple of things to add

The cash they are offering for the guns is bad
Half of accessories no cash
The cash for accessories that qualify a joke
No cash for guns without licences (Surely these are the ones we actually want most? Daahhh)
Gun storage safes you brought for suddenly illegal guns etc is no cash , you are just stuck with a 600 buck steel filing cabinet
Suddenly illegal gun ammo is no cash


And today we find out our police stations can't be trusted to even store the things after a review, when some bloke wandered into a station and walked out with about a dozen

 

[Andy_Ross]

If they don't hand them over go and get them.

 

[cullennz]

If they don't hand them over go and get them.

Except unless they have "E" licences no one knows who has them.

Having said that, they might be able to get a few from registered sold convertibles from the gun shops.

 

[TJM]

The NZ laws are going to be effective regardless if there's not a lot of compliance. Make semiautos illegal and ammo a precious commodity and the masses will soon be squirreling away their illegal arsenals into closets, walls and floorboards and will remain there until their owners either croak or get ratted out. So whether they remain privately held or bought back, those firearms are no longer in circulation.

 

[ponderingturtle]

The NZ laws are going to be effective regardless if there's not a lot of compliance. Make semiautos illegal and ammo a precious commodity and the masses will soon be squirreling away their illegal arsenals into closets, walls and floorboards and will remain there until their owners either croak or get ratted out. So whether they remain privately held or bought back, those firearms are no longer in circulation.

With the ammo, there is no specific semi auto ammo, so it would still be sold to feed the manual action fire arms.

 

[TJM]

With the ammo, there is no specific semi auto ammo, so it would still be sold to feed the manual action fire arms.

I haven't studied the new restrictions but iirc a "range of ammunition" was at least being discussed and cullenz mentioned illegal ammo up thread. If someone knows of these restrictions please post. I'm at work and gun related stuff triggers the net nanny.

Thanks.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I haven't studied the new restrictions but iirc a "range of ammunition" was at least being discussed and cullenz mentioned illegal ammo up thread. If someone knows of these restrictions please post. I'm at work and gun related stuff triggers the net nanny.

Thanks.

Well Cullenz list was pretty crazy as it is all based on the idea that shooters only shoot semi auto firearms and not any other. And of course wouldn't transition to allowed firearms in those calibers.

By wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_(Prohibited_Firearms,_Magazines,_and_Parts)_Amendment_Act

There do not seem to be any caliber restrictions in this at all, so if you get a bolt action rifle in 5.56mm Nato with a magazie of 5 rounds you can use all the rounds you had for your ar-15.

That list is based on the weird idea that shooters are only interested in shooting semi auto and so their shooting kit is useless with out it. This assumption is really weird. Cullenz should read up on the new law and see it does not seem to outlaw any ammunition in any fashion.

 

[BrooklynBaby]

The leftists are probably going to have to go to war to get their guns in Australia and New Zealand. (Which they will regret almost immediately.) They will definitely have to go to war to get our guns in the U.S., just like the Brits tried to do and failed miserably. Although, with the Brits if it hadn't been that it would have been something else.

 

[TJM]

I haven't studied the new restrictions but iirc a "range of ammunition" was at least being discussed and cullenz mentioned illegal ammo up thread. If someone knows of these restrictions please post. I'm at work and gun related stuff triggers the net nanny.

Thanks.

Found the answer:

Simply put, they'll ban any ammo they want.

http://legislation.govt.nz/bill/government/2019/0125/latest/LMS181212.html

 

[ponderingturtle]

Found the answer:

Simply put, they'll ban any ammo they want.

http://legislation.govt.nz/bill/government/2019/0125/latest/LMS181212.html

Have they actually banned anything?

 

[BrooklynBaby]

If they don't hand them over go and get them.

Do you really think it will be that simple? Would you volunteer for the job?

 

[plague311]

Do you really think it will be that simple? Would you volunteer for the job?

I don't think it would be as complicated or risky in NZ than it would be in the US.

Admittedly I'm not overly familiar with NZ's love for guns among their citizenry, but I'm overly familiar with it in the US. I would imagine it being much more of a problem here because of "DON'T TREAD ON ME!!!!" loons than anything.

 

[TJM]

Have they actually banned anything?

Not that I can see. That's why I'd like to hear it from a kiwi or somebody who's better versed with the subject.

 

[BrooklynBaby]

I don't think it would be as complicated or risky in NZ than it would be in the US.

Admittedly I'm not overly familiar with NZ's love for guns among their citizenry, but I'm overly familiar with it in the US. I would imagine it being much more of a problem here because of "DON'T TREAD ON ME!!!!" loons than anything.

The "DON'T TREAD ON ME!!!!" loons took on the Brits and won our independence. They created this country. Their descendents today have a fine pedigree and will keep this country free. Orwell knew this and left us out of Big Brother controlled Oceania in "1984", knowing we were fiercely independent, but the Brits were ripe for the plucking by future leftists. Pretty smart guy, that Orwell.

 

[plague311]

The "DON'T TREAD ON ME!!!!" loons took on the Brits and won our independence. They created this country. Their descendents today have a fine pedigree and will keep this country free. Orwell knew this and left us out of Big Brother controlled Oceania in "1984", knowing we were fiercely independent, but the Brits were ripe for the plucking by future leftists. Pretty smart guy, that Orwell.

Sure fella *pats head*. Run along now.

 

[BStrong]

Shouldn't be much of a surprise:

https://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/faculty_scholarship/439/

Imagining Gun Control in America, Understanding the remainder problem.

Abstract

Gun control in the United States generally has meant some type of supply regulation. Supply restrictions ranging from one-gun-a-month schemes to flat gun bans cannot work without a willingness and ability to reduce total inventory to levels approaching zero ("the supply-side ideal"). This is an impossible feat in a country that already has 300 million guns tightly held by people who think they are uniquely important tools. The average defiance ratio in places that have attempted gun confiscation and registration is 2.6 illegal guns for every legal one.

 

[smartcooky]

Do you really think it will be that simple? Would you volunteer for the job?

Sign me up!

This is not the USA; we don't have bunches of dumb-**** peckerwoods running around in the hills (being make-believe soldiers), who wouldn't last five minutes in a real shooting war with a real enemy.

In any case, effectively, the simple answer is to control the ammunition supply... guns with no ammo are like cars with no gas; a useless piece of scrap metal. You have to present your licence to buy ammunition, and the purchase is recorded, so we will know who they are and what calibre of firearm they own.

We also have a fine tradition in this country of dobbing law-breakers in to the cops. I know at least a half dozen people with semi-automatic firearms, and if I notice they still have them, I will definitely be dropping the local cops a line. There will be women who will dob their exes in as well.

I don't think it would be as complicated or risky in NZ than it would be in the US.

Admittedly I'm not overly familiar with NZ's love for guns among their citizenry, but I'm overly familiar with it in the US. I would imagine it being much more of a problem here because of "DON'T TREAD ON ME!!!!" loons than anything.

We don't have a big gun culture here; gun ownership in this country a not a right, its a privilege; one that can be rescinded. I'm a firearms owner (but I don't own any semi-automatics, just a shotgun for duck and goose shooting, and two bolt action rifles) We do have a hunting culture, but they are predominantly pig hunters who use dogs and knives, not guns.