Netanyahu fraud investigation

[Trebuchet]

Bibi is under criminal investigation for fraud. "Fake News" accusations in 3..2..1..

From The Guardian:

For his part, Netanyahu and his office have dismissed the accusations against him as a politically motivated witch-hunt designed to push him out of office.

Why does that sound so familiar?

 

[timhau]

Not to defend Netanyahu, but out of general interest: Looking from Israel, what is the closest country with a judiciary that is independent enough to start a criminal investigation of the sitting PM or equivalent?

 

[Trebuchet]

Not to defend Netanyahu, but out of general interest: Looking from Israel, what is the closest country with a judiciary that is independent enough to start a criminal investigation of the sitting PM or equivalent?

None, of course. Although Pakistan is working on it's PM, I think.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

He got expensive cigars and champaign?

‘Billionaire gave Netanyahus cigars, champagne worth hundreds of thousands’

The total value sounds bad but it was over many years and it's still hard to take seriously given the corruption in the Trump household.

Or am I missing something?

 

[Giordano]

Not to defend Netanyahu, but out of general interest: Looking from Israel, what is the closest country with a judiciary that is independent enough to start a criminal investigation of the sitting PM or equivalent?

Of course. I condemn many of the actions of the current Israel government, but there is no doubt that it is by far the most democratic country in the region (and that is even recognizing the multiple unfair policies Israel has toward the Palestinians within and next to their borders).

 

[Craig B]

Not to defend Netanyahu, but out of general interest: Looking from Israel, what is the closest country with a judiciary that is independent enough to start a criminal investigation of the sitting PM or equivalent?

Not to criticise any country, but what is the country with a judiciary that is subservient enough to accept this?

Customary international law, including the International Court of Justice's interpretation of the Fourth Geneva Convention in their July 2004 ruling, has been widely interpreted as prohibiting Israel from building settlements, due to its clauses prohibiting the transfer of a civilian population into an occupied territory. This was reaffirmed 5 December 2001, at the Conference of High Contracting Parties to the Fourth Geneva Convention. The participating High Contracting Parties called upon Israel "to fully and effectively respect the Fourth Geneva Convention in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and to refrain from perpetrating any violation of the Convention.​

 

[timhau]

Of course. I condemn many of the actions of the current Israel government, but there is no doubt that it is by far the most democratic country in the region (and that is even recognizing the multiple unfair policies Israel has toward the Palestinians within and next to their borders).

That's pretty much the Middle-East problem right there. In many ways, I find Israel and its policies distasteful too, but compared to anyone else in the area, they're practically a beacon of democracy and human rights.

 

[timhau]

Not to criticise any country, but what is the country with a judiciary that is subservient enough to accept this?

Customary international law, including the International Court of Justice's interpretation of the Fourth Geneva Convention in their July 2004 ruling, has been widely interpreted as prohibiting Israel from building settlements, due to its clauses prohibiting the transfer of a civilian population into an occupied territory. This was reaffirmed 5 December 2001, at the Conference of High Contracting Parties to the Fourth Geneva Convention. The participating High Contracting Parties called upon Israel "to fully and effectively respect the Fourth Geneva Convention in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and to refrain from perpetrating any violation of the Convention.​

That's Israel. What's the closest country where we wouldn't expect the judiciary to totally bend to the will of the political leader in every question? Greece, perhaps?

 

[Craig B]

That's Israel. What's the closest country where we wouldn't expect the judiciary to totally bend to the will of the political leader in every question? Greece, perhaps?

Perhaps. So what? In what way do illegal settlements, annexations and usurpation of territories help to create independent judiciaries in the countries subjected to them?

Do you think Greece would be a better place if some other country occupied, depopulated and annexed Thrace or some other Greek region? Would that improve the independence of the Greek judiciary? Or will you agree with me that it would probably have the opposite effect?

 

[Trebuchet]

That's Israel. What's the closest country where we wouldn't expect the judiciary to totally bend to the will of the political leader in every question? Greece, perhaps?

Turkey might have been a good answer up until a couple of years ago.

 

[Craig B]

Turkey might have been a good answer up until a couple of years ago.

I don't know the answer. It looks like a question that needs some research.

Here's an interesting report on the topic from Lebanon.

 

[ddt]

That's Israel. What's the closest country where we wouldn't expect the judiciary to totally bend to the will of the political leader in every question? Greece, perhaps?

Or what about Cyprus? At least that country has secular marriage, so that Israelis who don't want to bend to the whims of the Orthodox Rabbis, or who want to have an interfaith marriage can go there.

I'm not very surprised that Netanyahu is being investigated. There were rumours for years, and corruption seems rife these days among the Israeli political class. Olmert was corrupt his whole life and was in the end convicted for one measly thing.

I have to give the Israeli judiciary another thing: they've given equal rights to the Israeli Arabs though various verdicts of the Supreme Court, in matters of housing, work, education, etc., something that was not done by legislation or simply by the executive because it's the decent thing to do.

Of course, the same does not apply to Palestinian Arabs. They're expropriated from their farmlands, because obscure Ottoman law says that they forfeit the rights to their land when they haven't worked it for two years; the reason they haven't is because the army first built a wall between their home and their farmlands.

And, of course, as CraigB rightly notes, the colonisation of the West Bank goes on and the Israeli judiciary declares most of the settlements "legal" - settlements which divide the part of the West Bank that the PA may administer into five of six Bantustans.

 

[Arcade22]

Netanyahu's predecessor as Prime Minister, Ehud Olmert, was also accused of corruption and ultimately convicted. That guys predecessor, Ariel Sharon, was also suspected of various financial irregularities and suspicious dealings.

They have got a nice thing going.

 

[Tony Stark]

I am totally unshocked that that scumbag may be corrupt.

 

[ponderingturtle]

And, of course, as CraigB rightly notes, the colonisation of the West Bank goes on and the Israeli judiciary declares most of the settlements "legal" - settlements which divide the part of the West Bank that the PA may administer into five of six Bantustans.

Which is why a two state solution is right out. They are not going to forcibly relocate 10% of their population. A simple and direct single apartheid state seems the most reasonable outcome.

 

[Craig B]

Which is why a two state solution is right out. They are not going to forcibly relocate 10% of their population. A simple and direct single apartheid state seems the most reasonable outcome.

I think that is a "probable" rather than a "reasonable" outcome. I wonder how stable it would be.

Israel is a state founded on an ideology, as the USSR was. Zionists are well aware of the strength of the accusation against them, that they practice apartheid, and they are much concerned to rebut it; so they are careful to eschew the "colour bar" measures known in S Africa as "petty apartheid": segregated seats in parks, and so on.

The introduction of undisguised apartheid would perhaps cause the spiritual collapse of Zionism, and the state might then dissolve too, as the USSR did once its ideology had, by common consent, been exploded.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I think that is a "probable" rather than a "reasonable" outcome. I wonder how stable it would be.

Honest would probably be the best.

I am reminded of hearing about a victory for Israel, now people up to 12 years old never had 24 hours of uninterrupted electricity in the west bank in their entire lives.