need help with info on the historic Jesus...

[thinkren]

I have recently come across the idea that the man history remembers as Jesus Christ was a real person who was not necessarily divine but very much a political aggitator. A documentary, using parts of the bible as reference, placed the events of the Jesus's life into the context of the Roman occupation of Palestine. I was wondering how much information we have about this historic figure that does not have biblical origins. Are there any records of his existance or "teachings" outside of the gospel? I'm not asking for references to prophacies of his arrival in the old testament. I'm looking for credible primary sources such as physical archeological evidence (that hasn't been faked ) or literary accounts that are not second (or third) hand information. Just how much (and what kind of) reliable information do academic historians have to work with anyhow? Any information would be apreciated.

thanks in advance,
-ren

 

[thinkren]

a bit of clearification

the documentary I saw was a 4 hour production of the FRONTLINE program called "From Jesus to Christ: The First Christians." While the show was fascinating as a serious treatment of the historic Jesus, I felt a bit overwhelmed by the volume of information it provided. Let me refine my request to the Randi Forum by asking for resources that I can examine at my own pace.

thanks again.

PS I anticipate that this thread will generate a lively discussion on what constitutes credible evidence. As in: "How reliable is the bible as a historic document?" I hope those with expertise in this area would be patient and respectful when posting opinions and not try to pass them off as facts.

 

[triadboy]

I was wondering how much information we have about this historic figure that does not have biblical origins.

None

....and to claim he is a historic figure is bordering on fantasy. The Jesus of the bible (that you are wondering about) is a fantasy figure. The historic Jesus (if he existed) was an insignificant sage. If you look into the mythologies of other cultures, you will find the same story told there hundreds of years before Jesus. (Check out Mithra and Dionysus).

Paul started Xianity - not Jesus.

 

[evildave]

Or possibly just a composite of "Wouldn't it be cool if someone could do this!" stories.

Wishful thinking and allegory. Fun stuff.

 

[Russ]

the documentary I saw was a 4 hour production of the FRONTLINE program called "From Jesus to Christ: The First Christians." While the show was fascinating as a serious treatment of the historic Jesus, I felt a bit overwhelmed by the volume of information it provided. Let me refine my request to the Randi Forum by asking for resources that I can examine at my own pace.

Examine at your own pace here. I would imagine it would be pretty similar to your documentary.

 

[Brian the Snail]

Re: Re: need help with info on the historic Jesus...

....and to claim he is a historic figure is bordering on fantasy. The Jesus of the bible (that you are wondering about) is a fantasy figure. The historic Jesus (if he existed) was an insignificant sage. If you look into the mythologies of other cultures, you will find the same story told there hundreds of years before Jesus. (Check out Mithra and Dionysus).

Also Krishna. There's an interesting page about the similarities at Religious tolerance.

Also, check out the links at the bottom of the page- I think they are definitely relevant to your question.

 

[Landis]

After a pretty thorough investigation, I can only conclude that the Jesus the Christ figure is myth. The Romans kept very detailed records and there was no mention anywhere of a Jesus of Nazareth, preaching to multitudes, being put on trial, etc..

Most of the Christian's I've talked to believe (as I once did) that Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and Paul (the books of the new testatment) were the actual writings of the 12 disciples. In fact, those documents were written long after the so-called Jesus figure was supposed to have died. The disciples, if they were even real, did not write one word.

The most popular Roman God of the time was Mythra and apparently, the Romans sensing a great opportunity to bring the masses under their control, adopted the Jesus character as their own (see Emperor Constantinople) and gave him many of the Mythra character's qualities. It works to this day and causes the masses to rally around their tribal totems and fight the evil infidels which theaten the realm.