Near Death Nonsense

[Dr B]

Following on from the article in 2008 in the UK Skeptic magazine, here is a book review of Dr Pim van Lommel's offering on NDEs and Consciosuness after life.

Might be useful to link to when you get people coming here asking the same old, same old, same old, questions about NDEs.

If you cannot get access to the article from 2008 (though it is available on the net) let me know and give me your e-mail by PM. I will send on a PDF.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241292

 

[John Jackson]

Link: http://www.ukskeptics.com/the-dying-brain.php

 

[Dr B]

Cheers JJ

 

[John Jackson]

No problem. It's an excellent article that tackles the dualists' arguments very well.

 

[dlorde]

Link: http://www.ukskeptics.com/the-dying-brain.php

That link gives me:

403 Forbidden

Server configuration does not allow access to this page.

 

[Bram Kaandorp]

That link gives me:

403 Forbidden

Server configuration does not allow access to this page.

Then you'd better look into your server, because I can see the site clearly.

ETA: and that has been the case since it was posted, so it hasn't been fixed in the mean time.

 

[John Jackson]

I do a lot of IP blocking to avoid SPAM from Asia. Sometimes Australian IPs can get blocked too.

I suspect that's what the problem is. IP blocking that is - not that the poster's from Australia!

 

[Dr B]

Dear God everyone...I had no idea it was going to be this hard.

Here it is attached to this post. Enjoy

 

[blue sock monkey]

Link: http://www.ukskeptics.com/the-dying-brain.php

Thank you for that link to Dr Braithwaite's article. It's an excellent look at misconceptions held by proponents of the supernatural origin of NDEs.

I especially liked this:

This is the crucial logical fallacy of this whole field of research: how can one memorise an event in the absence of a working and functioning memory system?

(FYI, I had no difficulties with the link.)

 

[CORed]

The "near death experience" with bright light, family members, Jesus, etc. is just the splash screen that comes up when the brain is rebooted.

 

[Bram Kaandorp]

The "near death experience" with bright light, family members, Jesus, etc. is just the splash screen that comes up when the brain is rebooted.

I think it's closer to a BSOD.

 

[ExMinister]

Dr. B - very useful, appreciated.

I was aware that EEG studies do not detect activity in deeper levels of the brain but had not thought to put that together with why their use in NDE research could be problematic.

I also thought the fact that only 18% of Lommel's study participants reported NDEs and the rest did not was an interesting point. I wonder if Dr. Nelson's ideas on REM intrusion and the NDE will turn out to have some explanatory power here.

ETA: I also had no problems with the links

 

[ExMinister]

The "near death experience" with bright light, family members, Jesus, etc. is just the splash screen that comes up when the brain is rebooted.

Unless you're Thai and your brain gives you Yamatoots and talking roosters.

 

[comixman]

Thanks Dr B for this review. In my experience in discussing NDEs with friends it is a greater impediment to skepticism than religion, UFOs, conspiracies etc. Asking someone to accept the end of consciousness is to ask them to give up immortality.

As an aside I personally know someone who was in full cardiac arrest for 45 minutes. With the advent of hypothermia post arrest and excellent care she survived without brain damage and is back at work. Fortunately she gave up smoking after this event. Something we had been urging her to do for years. I asked her if she had any recollection of that time period. For her it is a complete blank. No memories until waking up in the intensive care unit. When I tell my believer friends this they have an explanation. She is in denial of the experience and may need hypnosis or something to bring it to consciousness. Oh well.

I expect more NDE stuff to come out since a few recent books have been commercial successes.

 

[fuelair]

No problems, read and enjoyed and downloaded the article!!! Thanks kindly!!!!

 

[Dr B]

Thank you for that link to Dr Braithwaite's article. It's an excellent look at misconceptions held by proponents of the supernatural origin of NDEs.
(FYI, I had no difficulties with the link.)

Thanks very much for your kind comments. I am glad you found both the review and article informative and enjoyable.

 

[Dr B]

Dr. B - very useful, appreciated.

I was aware that EEG studies do not detect activity in deeper levels of the brain but had not thought to put that together with why their use in NDE research could be problematic.

I also thought the fact that only 18% of Lommel's study participants reported NDEs and the rest did not was an interesting point. I wonder if Dr. Nelson's ideas on REM intrusion and the NDE will turn out to have some explanatory power here.

ETA: I also had no problems with the links

Hi ExMinister

Glad you enjoyed it and found it helpful. The fallacies will continue in certain quarters (i.e., the die hard believers) - but please refer others you know, who might be interested or benefit from it, to these links.

 

[Dr B]

Thanks Dr B for this review. In my experience in discussing NDEs with friends it is a greater impediment to skepticism than religion, UFOs, conspiracies etc. Asking someone to accept the end of consciousness is to ask them to give up immortality.

Thanks for the supportive comments and you are more than welcome.

As an aside I personally know someone who was in full cardiac arrest for 45 minutes. With the advent of hypothermia post arrest and excellent care she survived without brain damage and is back at work. Fortunately she gave up smoking after this event. Something we had been urging her to do for years. I asked her if she had any recollection of that time period. For her it is a complete blank. No memories until waking up in the intensive care unit. When I tell my believer friends this they have an explanation. She is in denial of the experience and may need hypnosis or something to bring it to consciousness. Oh well.

I did respond to your comment over in the book review thread though its not been cleared yet. But yes, I share your view view here.

I expect more NDE stuff to come out since a few recent books have been commercial successes.

I know. I've been approached to write one myself by a publishing company - but I'm too busy at the moment (though obviously mine will not sell as it will be scientific and NOT paranormalist in flavour).

It's important we provide a response - so please make sure when you encounter NDE nonsense, you get in touch with your 'inner medic' and provide the antidote.

 

[comixman]

I did respond to your comment over in the book review thread though its not been cleared yet. But yes, I share your view view here.

Kind of a newbie. I think it was a mistake to put my comments on the book review thread and not here. Despite the woo my friends profess I remind them it's a testament to SCIENCE that my friend survived this event and is still here. Dan Dennett, who's survived an aortic dissection, said in an interview: "Thank goodness."

 

[Dr B]

No worries, nice to hear from you.