Naturopath guilty in death

[arcticpenguin]

For those who ask, "What harm it could it do to let people believe bizarre things?", wake up and smell the dead babies.

A NATUROPATH was today found guilty of the manslaughter of an 18-day-old baby he was treating.

Reginald Harold Fenn, 74, had pleaded not guilty to the unlawful killing of baby Mitchell James Little who was born with aortic stenosis - a structural heart defect that could only be treated by surgery.

During the nine-day trial in the Supreme Court at Newcastle, north of Sydney, the court was told the Port Stephens naturopath had treated the baby in September 1999 with herbal drops and a "Mora Machine" before declaring him cured.

He recommended that parents, Michael and Elizabeth Little, not allow their baby to undergo surgery.

Mr and Mrs Little then cancelled an appointment at Westmead Hospital where Mitchell was to be assessed for an operation to repair or replace the narrowed aortic valve that was putting pressure on his enlarged and overworked heart.

 

[CFLarsen]

Sources?

 

[Segnosaur]

Sources?

Don't know if this was the original source, but: http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,7102560%5E1702,00.html

 

[CFLarsen]

Thanks!

 

[arcticpenguin]

Don't know if this was the original source, but: http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,7102560%5E1702,00.html

Thanks; sorry for the oversight.

 

[reprise]

You know, until we get over our attitude of "the parents have suffered enough" and start punishing the parents for their part in fiascos like this one, it's going to keep happening.

 

[SRW]

The parents probably find comfort in "It must be Gods will" Yeah and god aslo wants them to do hard time in prison.

 

[plindboe]

These parents probably had the best intentions for their child, but lacked the sense of rational thinking when choosing where to turn. Is stupidity a crime?

Peter

 

[tim]

I try not to be too judgemental - but I think the parents were pretty stupid here, and they're guilty of that. I think the verdict is fair - Mr Fenn was clearly acting beyond his expertise. That a common cold was beyond his expertise is merely my opinion.

 

[T'ai Chi]

A horribly tragic thing.

However, this is a blemish on that particular naturopath, not naturopathy as a whole. Responsible alternative medicine practicioners recommend patients see traditional doctors for surgery-necessary conditions.

 

[EdipisReks]

A horribly tragic thing.

However, this is a blemish on that particular naturopath, not naturopathy as a whole. Responsible alternative medicine practicioners recommend patients see traditional doctors for surgery-necessary conditions.

there is no such thing as "alternative" medicine.

 

[T'ai Chi]

there is no such thing as "alternative" medicine.

Uh huh, sure big guy, wish it away.



Anyway, you surely know of what I am talking about.

 

[BTox]

Uh huh, sure big guy, wish it away.



Anyway, you surely know of what I am talking about.

There is nothing to wish away. He is exactly right, there is no "alternative" medicine. If it works, and is clinically proven to do so, it is medicine. If it does not, e.g. homeopathy, it is quackery.

 

[Luceiia]

Uh huh, sure big guy, wish it away.

Excellent pun. =)

There is medicine that works and can be backed up by a body of evidence (facts). Wishing those facts to be true or false has no bearing on medical effectiveness.

There are methods that do not work and cannot be backed up by facts (alternative medicine). That was a very clever pun to suggest the 'wishing away' of something that exists only in wishes. Kudos!


Luceiia

 

[Elaborate]

Uh huh, sure big guy, wish it away.



Anyway, you surely know of what I am talking about.

Only if by "alternative" you mean "untested, unproven, and possibly dangerous".

 

[T'ai Chi]

He is exactly right, there is no "alternative" medicine. If it works, and is clinically proven to do so, it is medicine. If it does not, e.g. homeopathy, it is quackery.

There are many clinical studies showing significance with several different alternative medicines.

You might protest that:

1. small sample size
2. need better experimental design
3. p value not small enough
4. need to be written up in better journal
5. need magicians there for quality control
6. needs to be replicated more
7. (insert your choice here)

However, these things can be said about any study.

"alternative" etc., are just words. What I meant was any form of treatment not done by the majority of the doctors in the United States (for example).

 

[T'ai Chi]

Only if by "alternative" you mean "untested, unproven, and possibly dangerous".

Many have been tested.

Many have been "proven" (technically, I think you mean "evidence shown for...")

But yes, many haven't been tested, "proven", and some are, in fact, dangerous.

By alternative medicine I mean:

(from NCCAM webpage)

"Complementary and alternative medicine, as defined by the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine (NCCAM), is a group of diverse medical and health care systems, practices, and products that are not presently considered to be part of conventional medicine. The list of practices that are considered CAM changes continually, as those therapies that are proven to be safe and effective become adopted into conventional health care and as new approaches to health care emerge. "

That is to say, not the normal treatments.

 

[BTox]

"alternative" etc., are just words. What I meant was any form of treatment not done by the majority of the doctors in the United States (for example).

That definition encompasses any experimental treatments as well. Do you consider them alternative? NDA drugs?

Some of what you call "alternative" may have merit as they have a feasible mode of action and show clinical promise. And with further testing to confirm efficacy and safety, will become mainstream. Others, like homeopathy, have no feasible mode of action, have not shown clinical efficacy, will never become mainstream.

 

[EdipisReks]

Many have been tested.

Many have been "proven" (technically, I think you mean "evidence shown for...")

But yes, many haven't been tested, "proven", and some are, in fact, dangerous.

By alternative medicine I mean:

(from NCCAM webpage)

"Complementary and alternative medicine, as defined by the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine (NCCAM), is a group of diverse medical and health care systems, practices, and products that are not presently considered to be part of conventional medicine. The list of practices that are considered CAM changes continually, as those therapies that are proven to be safe and effective become adopted into conventional health care and as new approaches to health care emerge. "

That is to say, not the normal treatments.

ok Oinkman. of course the National Association of Crap and Crap Prentending to Not Be Crap is going to pretend that the crap that they "represent" exists. however, that doesn't push away a very important fact; if a treatment is shown to have some benefit, it is medicine, and it it isn't shown to have benefit, then it ain't. also, Oinkie ol' buddy, unconventional != alternative in the sense that you are meaning.

 

[T'ai Chi]

ok Oinkman.

I'm not following your adhom there.

of course the National Association of Crap and Crap Prentending to Not Be Crap is going to pretend that the crap that they "represent" exists.

Now you're simply being irrational.