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Musharraf resigns

Travis

Misanthrope of the Mountains
Travis
Joined
Mar 31, 2007
Messages
24,133
Well, we'll have to see what this leads to.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/pakistan
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/08/18/musharraf.address/index.html


Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf announced Monday that he will resign, just days ahead of impeachment in parliament over attempts by the U.S.-backed leader to impose authoritarian rule on his turbulent nation.

"I hope the nation and the people will forgive my mistakes," Musharraf said in a televised address, much of which was devoted to defending his record and refuting criticisms.
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I think the act, in isolation, is a pretty good thing: a military dictator who assumed power under a coup and steadfastly refused to allow elections for the office he took has peacefully stepped down. (Granted, he was about to be thrown out - which is a concept I don't quite get given how he got there in the first place - but still...)

For the US, this can be a double-edged sword. If the new head of state is hostile to us, then we lose what little of an "ally" we had in Pakistan. However, if we don't have to worry about losing the support of a nation that hates us anyway, we can roll some thunder and take the fight to bin Laden again.
 
I have no love for Mushareff, and agree a military dictator going down is in isolation a good thing, but nothing in reality is isolated.
This could be like THe Russian Revolution: One Tyrant was overthrown, but what took his place was even worse.
 
RadioactiveMan said:
.... However, if we don't have to worry about losing the support of a nation that hates us anyway, we can roll some thunder and take the fight to bin Laden again.
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I just love armchair warrior chickenhawks all agog to volunteer others to do the fighting.
________

dudalb said:
I have no love for Mushareff, and agree a military dictator going down is in isolation a good thing, but nothing in reality is isolated. This could be like THe Russian Revolution: One Tyrant was overthrown, but what took his place was even worse.
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Going to be worse, mark my words, going to be worse, much worse. Going to be all confused, instable, and with a government with no real control over the military -- and a military with no real control over the country. And elements of the ISI running wild giving a little help to their friends.

IOW: the USA is stuffed, because while the Pakistani govt will not be hostile, it will not be in control either.

BTW, anyone here insane enough to believe that the USA can afford a massive occupation of or even just big war in Pakistan as well as the current problems in Iraq and Afghanistan?
 
Gurdur said:
BTW, anyone here insane enough to believe that the USA can afford a massive occupation of or even just big war in Pakistan as well as the current problems in Iraq and Afghanistan?
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No one is suggesting occupying Pakistan. The idea is to go after the Taliban in their bases in the tribal territories, which the Pakistani government doesn't control anyway. We are already at war with them.
 
WildCat said:
No one is suggesting occupying Pakistan.
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Oh, wait till RadioactiveMan and BAC kick in. I'm sure mrbaracuda will eventually recover some vigour too.

The idea is to go after the Taliban in their bases in the tribal territories, which the Pakistani government doesn't control anyway. We are already at war with them.
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Do that in any massive way with US troops and you can prepare for having to occupy large swathes, including Islamabad, as well.

It's terribly predictable what the longterm prescence of US troops in the tribal areas would mean for the rest of Pakistan; and what the means for the USA is also highly predictable.
 
Gurdur said:
It's terribly predictable what the longterm prescence of US troops in the tribal areas would mean for the rest of Pakistan; and what the means for the USA is also highly predictable.
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It's also predictable as to what will happen when you allow your enemy to have a safe haven from which to attack you.
 
dudalb said:
I have no love for Mushareff, and agree a military dictator going down is in isolation a good thing, but nothing in reality is isolated.
This could be like THe Russian Revolution: One Tyrant was overthrown, but what took his place was even worse.
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What he replaced was better. If they can go back, things will still be far from perfect, but they will be better than Mushareff. His only claim to fame with the West was that he wasn't as bad as the alternative.
 
WildCat said:
It's also predictable as to what will happen when you allow your enemy to have a safe haven from which to attack you.
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The only way I see the US actually going into Pakistan is if there is such upheaval that the Nukes are in danger of falling into the wrong hands. If that were to happen then India may just beat us to the punch.
 
If the US gets India as an ally then an invasion of Pakistan would be possible but I'm doubtful it would be desirable. It would essentially cement Muslim hatred of the US and attacks on US forces would go up everywhere.

The US could take Pakistan and keep Afghanistan but it can say goodbye to Iraq and all the other US bases in the Gulf.
 
Travis said:
If the US gets India as an ally then an invasion of Pakistan would be possible but I'm doubtful it would be desirable. It would essentially cement Muslim hatred of the US and attacks on US forces would go up everywhere.

The US could take Pakistan and keep Afghanistan but it can say goodbye to Iraq and all the other US bases in the Gulf.
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I'm just saying that India would be VERY worried if the Pak's nuclear arsenal fell into the wrong hands and could conceivably act on its own. Remember that as recently as 2003 India and Pakistan were on the verge of throwing nukes at each other.
I wasn't advocating a joint US India alliance I was simply saying that India is fully capable of acting alone.
 
Texas said:
The only way I see the US actually going into Pakistan is if there is such upheaval that the Nukes are in danger of falling into the wrong hands. If that were to happen then India may just beat us to the punch.
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Agreed. The only other item of interest in Pakistan is OBL (if he's there) and we'll use aerial tools to get him. We might use some special forces but if so it will be on a quick-in/quick-out basis.
 
SezMe said:
Agreed. The only other item of interest in Pakistan is OBL (if he's there) and we'll use aerial tools to get him. We might use some special forces but if so it will be on a quick-in/quick-out basis.
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I would be surprised if OBL is even alive at this point. I have no basis for that other than he is too much a publicity hound to confine himself to audio tapes.
 
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