MSG Myth Questions...

[Elektrix]

Hi all,

My brother came home today from class and told me about how one of his classmates was telling him a lot about the dangers of MSG (being linked to all sorts of chronic illnesses, etc.) and how MSG is in many prepackaged foods, etc.

Anyway, I've tried researching this a bit, but the sites I have come up with the same information that it sounds like she mentioned to my brother have a sort of whoo-whoo aspect to them (i.e. http://www.msgmyth.com/).

I was wondering if anyone could shed some light for me on how much of this MSG stuff is valid, and how much of this is just sort of out there? It sounds like this classmate (who was talking about it because she had just written a paper on it for one of her other classes) was pretty convinced about it, but I figured I would post here and see what people here might have to say, and if you might be able to point me to any sources that either validate this concern or invalidate it.

-Elektrix

 

[Jon_in_london]

I have also wondered about MSG. It is afetr all just a sodium salt of an amino acid. How could it be so bad?

 

[Elektrix]

I have also wondered about MSG. It is afetr all just a sodium salt of an amino acid. How could it be so bad?

Yeah, that's part of why I'm asking this question..... it seems that these people are saying it's apparently one of the worst things you can put in your body, affecting braim chemistry and who knows what else. It just seems a little odd to me, but I'm having some trouble finding stuff that counters this MSG complaint.

-Elektrix

 

[mummymonkey]

Go to google.com and search on the words MSG and safe. Just under three hundred thousand links.

 

[Elektrix]

Go to google.com and search on the words MSG and safe. Just under three hundred thousand links.

Hrmm, a lot of those seem to be "Is MSG safe? No" with stuff like from this a pregnancy site:

More severe symptoms have even been reported including difficulty in breathing, worsened asthma , changes in heart rate or blood pressure, and chest pain. Just think what it could do to your baby

The first link that comes up is an FDA site, which says they have determined it is safe... but doesn't go into too many details. This site at http://www.msgfacts.com/safety/msgsafety01.html says it is safe too, but I imagine these MSG people wouldn't take it seriously since it seems to be run by an association of processed food makers, etc.

Just from looking through the links, many of them seem to either be sites saying no it isn't safe, and then sites saying it is safe by just saying that none of the things these people claim have been scientifically verified.... but they don't go into too much detail.

I'm hoping to come up with something more definitive.

-Elektrix

 

[zakur]

Chinese Restaurant Syndrome (from Medline Plus)

Chinese restaurant syndrome is a collection of symptoms that some people experience after eating Chinese food. A food additive called monosodium glutamate (MSG) has been implicated, but it has not been proven to be the agent that causes this condition.

In 1968, reports of a series of reactions to Chinese food were first described. MSG was reported to cause these symptoms, but subsequent research produced conflicting data. Many studies were performed, but a majority failed to show a connection between MSG and the symptoms that some people describe after eating Chinese food. For this reason, MSG continues to be used in some meals. However, it is possible that some people are particularly sensitive to food additives, and MSG is chemically similar to one of the brain's most important neurotransmitters, glutamate.

FDA Backgrounder on MSG

Injections of glutamate in laboratory animals have resulted in damage to nerve cells in the brain. Consumption of glutamate in food, however, does not cause this effect. While people normally consume dietary glutamate in large amounts and the body can make and metabolize glutamate efficiently, the results of animal studies conducted in the 1980s raised a significant question: Can MSG and possibly some other glutamates harm the nervous system?

A 1995 report from the Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology (FASEB), an independent body of scientists, helps put these safety concerns into perspective and reaffirms the Food and Drug Administration's belief that MSG and related substances are safe food ingredients for most people when eaten at customary levels.

The FASEB report identifies two groups of people who may develop a condition the report refers to as "MSG symptom complex." One group is those who may be intolerant to MSG when eaten in a large quantity. The second is a group of people with severe, poorly controlled asthma. These people, in addition to being prone to MSG symptom complex, may suffer temporary worsening of asthmatic symptoms after consuming MSG. The MSG dosage that produced reactions in these people ranged from 0.5 grams to 2.5 grams.

Although FDA has not fully analyzed the FASEB report, the agency believes that the report provides the basis to require glutamate labeling. FDA will propose that foods containing significant amounts of free glutamate (not bound in protein along with other amino acids) declare glutamate on the label. This would allow consumers to distinguish between foods with insignificant free glutamate levels and those that might contribute to a reaction.

You can also go to the National Library of Medicine's PubMed database and do a search for "monosodium glutamate" to read abstracts of more than 1000 published studies on MSG. Narrow your search results further by adding qualifiers such as "adverse effects," "safety," etc.

 

[arcticpenguin]

I have also wondered about MSG. It is afetr all just a sodium salt of an amino acid. How could it be so bad?

Well that amino acid, glutamate, is the primary excitatory neurotransmitter in the brain.

 

[Jon_in_london]

Well that amino acid, glutamate, is the primary excitatory neurotransmitter in the brain.

Yes but its still just glutamate really isnt it? I mean, you get it when you eat meat.

 

[Elektrix]

Would anyone else have anything to add, per se, to this?

From talking to them more, they also say it is linked to obesity and diabetes, and that it has all sorts of effects on the pancreas and nervous system.

The sites I can find are good, but then they also say "so what if there are studies that show it is safe?" - they will counter with a long list of studies at www.msgtruth.com/related.htm showing all sorts of negative effects.... and then some of them also don't trust the FDA and say it is being paid by lobbyists of the food administration (I know this can't be countered).

Any other ideas?

-Zadillo

 

[Ziggurat]

I have to wonder if some of this bad reputation for MSG might come from celiac disease, which is a general sensitivity to gluten (ie, anything with wheat or flour in it):

http://www.celiac.org/

It's a rather strange disease in that susceptibility is genetic, but it's generally only aquired after some trauma to the intestines (such as a bad intestinal flu) followed by exposure to gluten. But once a person with celiac disease becomes sensitive, they have the condition for life. Some people become sensitive in early childhood, but it's possible to aquire sensitivity as an adult as well. I bring this up because MSG added to, say, a soup that nominally doesn't contain any wheat could trigger a response in someone with celiac disease.

 

[kourama]

I dunno if it is safe, but I spent a couple of weeks eating Campbell's soup at work for lunch, and I ended up with earth-shattering gas and occasional cramps. They went away as soon as I stopped eating campbells soup.

That stuff has MSG in the ingredients list.

Of course, this is far from scientific.

 

[daver]

Would anyone else have anything to add, per se, to this?

From talking to them more, they also say it is linked to obesity and diabetes, and that it has all sorts of effects on the pancreas and nervous system.

The sites I can find are good, but then they also say "so what if there are studies that show it is safe?" - they will counter with a long list of studies at www.msgtruth.com/related.htm showing all sorts of negative effects.... and then some of them also don't trust the FDA and say it is being paid by lobbyists of the food administration (I know this can't be countered).

Any other ideas?

-Zadillo

Well, we know how relentlessly researched THE DESTROYER novels were, and we know that too much MSG (probably in a White Castle hamburger) caused Remo to go into shock, so i think it's safe to say that MSG is extremely dangerous if you've spent an inordinate amount of time learning an extremely obscure Korean martial art.

OK, a bit less silly. MSG apparently occurs naturally in mushrooms (big deal--so do a number of mycotoxins); i'd seen suggestions that if it didn't have such a scary chemical name that most of the furor about it would never had arisen.

 

[RSLancastr]

I don't eat Chinese food, and so never thought much about the MSG issue.

But the other day, a Chinese guy I work with brought in some rice crackers and shared them with us all. They were a chinese brand, and tasted rather like "Chicken In a Biscuit" crackers.

I ate two of them, mostly to be polite. An hour later, I had a killer headache, and got woozy, and it was difficult to think straight, and even stay awake. I went out to my car and slept a few hours before heading home.

I asked about it the next day, and two others in the office had gotten really bad headaches after eating the crackers.

I found the bag they had come in, and MSG was listed in the ingredients of both the cracker AND the powdered flavoring they were coated in.

Anecdotal, I know.

 

[tracer]

MSG apparently occurs naturally in mushrooms (big deal--so do a number of mycotoxins); i'd seen suggestions that if it didn't have such a scary chemical name that most of the furor about it would never had arisen.

MSG is also occurs naturally in meats, in small quantities.

In fact, taste receptors for it on the human tongue have even been discovered:
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mumami.html

 

[BTox]

This is just another example of the woowoo "fear factor". They seem to enjoy having the bejesus scared out of them about just about everything around them. You'll find sites like that on fluoridated water (try explaining to them that many water supplies are naturally fluoridated and they still don't get it), vaccines, even milk (raw.. very good, pasteurized.. very bad), and one of my favorites.. aspartame. Check this one out, if these two aren't the king and queen of woowoos, I don't know who is:

aspartame is deadly poison!

Even some so-called doctors are fond of the scare the living daylights out of people game. This clown Mercola is one of worst:

quack-quack

 

[Brian]

I don't eat Chinese food, and so never thought much about the MSG issue.

(as an aside)
Do you eat KFC? Just wondering.



I suspect a big part of this is the name. It sounds like a chemical. And it is I guess. But so is table salt.
Nobody freaks out about salt and pepper and other seasonings. They should have named it something common sounding.

 

[Phaycops]

I've been wondering about this, too. I was under the impression that MSG is used much more commonly as a flavoring in China and other Asian countries. Why aren't scientists in these countries where MSG is more widely used reporting all these bad effects?

 

[shanek]

I suspect a big part of this is the name. It sounds like a chemical. And it is I guess. But so is table salt.
Nobody freaks out about salt and pepper and other seasonings. They should have named it something common sounding.

This is a point. It would explain why so many people so many different times have had a lot of success getting signatures for petitions to ban hydrogen hydroxide, or dihydrogen monoxide, and getting everyone whooped up about it...until they're told that those are just the chemical names for water.

 

[RSLancastr]

Do you eat KFC? Just wondering.

From time to time. I assume you're now going to say that it is chock-full o' MSG (is MSG one of the "eleven herbs and spices"?).

I suspect a big part of this is the name. It sounds like a chemical. And it is I guess. But so is table salt. Nobody freaks out about salt and pepper and other seasonings. They should have named it something common sounding.

To the contrary, a lot of people freak out about table salt, because it is, in relatively small quantities, bad for you.

 

[Brian]

From time to time. I assume you're now going to say that it is chock-full o' MSG (is MSG one of the "eleven herbs and spices"?).

To the contrary, a lot of people freak out about table salt, because it is, in relatively small quantities, bad for you.

Yup, KFC has it, it may be the main ingrediant other than salt. But, that wasn't a trick question. Now for sake of discussion you can think back to when you ate KFC and determine if it had any effect on you at the time.

And of course you're right about salt.