Mormons and Katrina

[Nyarlathotep]

This could go in any of several places but I put it here since it deals with a specific religion. The mods may move it if they wish and I won't complain....


Anyway, back in my Mormon days I recall that we were supposed to stockpile a years supply of food and water in case of disaster. It was (and remains) one of the most sensible teachings of the church, IMO. Now I realize that New Orleans isn't exactly the heart of Mormon country but I would be surprised if there weren't quite a few there. Katrina seems like a perfect test bed for how well that particualr doctrine works out in practice. So I am curiuos how the Mormon population of the city fared compared to the rest of the city. So far, no luck in finding any info on that.

Anyone have any ideas?

 

[Kopji]

I would think that it would only invite trouble. Looters would look for Mormons to raid, etc.

I thought the original concept was related to Mormons believing Christians would go through the 'tribulation'.

 

[RandFan]

I would think that it would only invite trouble. Looters would look for Mormons to raid, etc.

How do you look for Mormons? Maybe some looters know of some well known Mormons. Maybe some guy knows his neighbor is Mormon. Maybe not. You argue that it would be worse to have the food than not to have it. In such a situation I would much rather have the food than not. Looters are going to loot regardless and they are just as likely to target personal possession as they are doing right now in NOLA. So maybe we shouldn't own TV's, stereos, computers, etc.

I have extra food and water for emergencies. It is recomended by the State of California in case of a serious emergency. Not a years worth mind you. If I had a years supply I wouldn't tell people that I did.

 

[Kopji]

How do you look for Mormons?...

...I have extra food and water for emergencies. It is recomended by the State of California in case of a serious emergency. Not a years worth mind you. If I had a years supply I wouldn't tell people that I did.

They'd be the ones singing hymns.

In New Orleans? Oh, I'd start with large white families with lots of kids.

Emergency supplies are a good idea.

I dunno, this seems like a practical version of 'heaven on earth': Where the faithful are blessed and well supplied while watching others suffer in hell.

The question seems to come down to 'what kind of people could live like that?'

 

[I'll_buy_that]

Stockpiling food and water is a great idea. More men should do it.

I don't know if it would have helped much in NO, though. Most people were driven from their homes as everything, but the roof were under water and unless that stockpile were kept in the attick (not likely in a hot climate) it wouldn't be that good in this particular situation.

OTOH, if they were living in one of the areas that didn't get destroyed by water, they might have been thankful of this foresight. But in the end, everyone has to evacuate the city now and you can't take all that food with you.

It is good to plan for events like this, but as this has shown us, we really don't know the extent and the nature of the damage until it is all over

 

[cbish]

How do you look for Mormons?

Come on RandFan, Mormons are super easy to pick out! They have that Mormon look! You know, for the men, that Republican Congressman hair cut. For the women, 80's style feathered hair with the ankle high dress. I could pick them out at the Rose Bowl

PS; If you find one wearing shorts, you could check to see if they're wearing their secret scivies.

 

[RandFan]

They'd be the ones singing hymns.

In New Orleans? Oh, I'd start with large white families with lots of kids.

Emergency supplies are a good idea.

I dunno, this seems like a practical version of 'heaven on earth': Where the faithful are blessed and well supplied while watching others suffer in hell.

The question seems to come down to 'what kind of people could live like that?'

But don't we do that now? There are poor people and even homeless people throughout the world and down the street. People without clean water and adequate food. Yet we spend an enormous amount on entertainment and buy luxuries while many in this world are suffering. Even if we do give our time and resources to the poor it is a but fraction of the resources we spend on non-necessities. And you are suggesting that it is better to forgo necessities in time of disaster so we won't have the misfortune to live better than our neighbors?

 

[Nyarlathotep]

I dunno, this seems like a practical version of 'heaven on earth': Where the faithful are blessed and well supplied while watching others suffer in hell.

The question seems to come down to 'what kind of people could live like that?'

So being prepared for an emergency is a bad thing because not everyone else around you will have the foresight to do it? That is weird logic.

And besides, who said that someone would be living it up while everyone else around him suffers. If a person puts aside enough food for himself and his family to last a year, he can help a LOT of his neighbors if it only has to last a week.

 

[Kopji]

quote:

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Originally posted by Nyarlathotep

So being prepared for an emergency is a bad thing because not everyone else around you will have the foresight to do it? That is weird logic.

---

Oh! Hey! Cool. I don't get to quote myself very often.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kopji

Emergency supplies are a good idea.

---

Randfan makes a good point though. Who do we think of as our neighbor?

The storing food thing actually passes a basic 'what if everyone did it?' test. You and your neighbors would be better off.
I think there are far worse things to do.

My point though, is that Mormons do not store food out some general sense of being prepared like Boy Scouts. They are prepared because Mormons have a different view of the 'end times' - a view where the religious are huddled together in defense against the world.

 

[Kopji]

Anyone have any ideas?

Sheesh don't be so touchy guys. The thread seemed lonely.
Personally, I'm ok with this. It would be great if all the starving people in the world could save up a year's worth of food.

And if Mormons have all this food in storage, don't let me stop them from starting the distribution early.

But they can't or won't so I guess its too bad.

As a religious tenet, maybe some things are more suited to middle class America than others. Proxy baptisms too, this is a fine activity for retired people who have extra cash or time.

 

[RandFan]

My point though, is that Mormons do not store food out some general sense of being prepared like Boy Scouts. They are prepared because Mormons have a different view of the 'end times' - a view where the religious are huddled together in defense against the world.

This is a part myth and part truth. Leaders are fond of telling stories of the woman whose husband is laid off of his job and she calls the Bishop to ask if it is ok to use her food storage. "If you are prepared you shall not fear" is a frequently stated scripture. Mormons are told to prepare for any emergency.

Such doomsday events are believed in Mormon culture however and food storage is in part encouraged for such incidents. But to tell you the truth Mormons by and large don't dwell on post apocalyptic events based on my recollection. It's there and most are familiar with it but that's about it. Non-Mormons think about such dark end times much more than Mormons do I assure you.

 

[RandFan]

Anyone have any ideas?

Sheesh don't be so touchy guys. The thread seemed lonely.
Personally, I'm ok with this. It would be great if all the starving people in the world could save up a year's worth of food.

And if Mormons have all this food in storage, don't let me stop them from starting the distribution early.

But they can't or won't so I guess its too bad.

As a religious tenet, maybe some things are more suited to middle class America than others. Proxy baptisms too, this is a fine activity for retired people who have extra cash or time.

Cool.

 

[Kopji]

This is a part myth and part truth. Leaders are fond of telling stories of the woman whose husband is laid off of his job and she calls the Bishop to ask if it is ok to use her food storage. "If you are prepared you shall not fear" is a frequently stated scripture. Mormons are told to prepare for any emergency.

Such doomsday events are believed in Mormon culture however and food storage is in part encouraged for such incidents. But to tell you the truth Mormons by and large don't dwell on post apocalyptic events based on my recollection. It's there and most are familiar with it but that's about it. Non-Mormons think about such dark end times much more than Mormons do I assure you.

Maybe that's a misconception on my part. Mormons are traditionally known as 'post-tribulationists', and that would mean that in the 'end times', the church would be expected to go through at least part of the 'tribulation', and not be 'raptured' before. Preparations like food and such would then make a lot of practical sense. The benefit to things like normal natural disasters would be a secondary benefit.

With all the modern 'rapture' books etc, many people don't seem to ever hear that there are actually four interpretations of how the Book of Revelation plays out.

But first, I found this choice description on Rapture Ready. Are they incapable of expressing a clear thought? If anyone can make sense of this, which is supposed to be what they are all about, please do jump in.

It is interesting to take note of Dr. Walvoord' s classification of differing types of posttribulationism in light of the often made claims that pretribulationism is of recent vintage (around 1830). With the death of Payne in the 1970s, no one of significance even holds his classical view of posttribulationism.

The semi-classical view of Reese is rarely held as well. Both of the views require the historicist view of prophecy, which almost no one holds to apart from Seventh-Day Adventist and Mormon influence. This means that the last two forms of posttribulationism, which are views that almost all premillennial
posttribulationists advocate today, were developed after preetribulational futurism came on the scene. This means that the systematic approach of virtually all premillennial posttribulationism is newer than pretribulationism. This is a fact little understood in premillennial posttribulational circles. This
should be a cause for pause and reflection on their part before suggesting that there is a problem with
the history of pretribulationism.

http://www.raptureready.com/featured/TheWalvoordLegacy.html

Buzzzzz

Ok that was fun. A better explanation here:

None of these schools of interpretation can claim any monopoly on scholarship or faith. Each group numbers many fine scholars and devout Christian believers. Therefore complete certainty in regard to the interpretation of the Apocalypse is not to be had. It is our duty to do the best we can, to study the various systems and accept the view that seems to us to be right, but always with a certain amount of reservation and of respect for the opinions of others (pages 4-5).

The format for the main body of Revelation, chapters 4 through 19, consists of four columns for the four major views: the historicist, the preterist, the futurist, and the spiritual approach. The historicist view sees Revelation as a record of the course of history from the time of the apostles to the end of the world; it is thus still in progress. The preterist view sees Revelation as future from the standpoint of the writer, but having been fulfilled not long after the author’s own time (generally 70 AD), and thus it is history from our standpoint. Some preterists believe the final chapters of Revelation still look forward to a future second coming of Christ, while others believe that all of Revelation has been fulfilled. The futurist view believes that the prophecies are of events which are yet future from our perspective. Everything after chapter 4 is usually held to refer to things that will occur in a short period (i.e. a 7- year period known as the Tribulation) before the return of Christ. Rather than seeking to find individual fulfillments of the visions, the spiritual view takes Revelation as a kind of drama, which depicts spiritual truths which may occur over and over throughout history, such as the conflicts “between Christ and Satan, between the saints and the antichristian world powers, and depicting the final victory of Christ and his saints” (page 3). Thus fulfillment may be seen as “entirely spiritual or as
recurrent, finding representative expression throughout the age, rather than in one-time, specific fulfillments” (page 3). Thus the prophecies are applicable to Christians in any age.
http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=1672

Mormons are generally "historicist", a (now unpopular) reading of Revelation that spans thousands of years. For example, I was always taught the "two witnesses" were not people, but the Book of Mormon and D&C that 'came forth in the mid 1800's (RLDS have no other books like Pearl of Great Price).

I find it interesting that even today, there is no real agreement on the four possible interpretations, yet they give each other's views grudging respect. I make this point, because it is not a Bible contradiction, but evidence the Bible is often ambiguous.

 

[Beerina]

How do you look for Mormons? Maybe some looters know of some well known Mormons. Maybe some guy knows his neighbor is Mormon. Maybe not. You argue that it would be worse to have the food than not to have it. In such a situation I would much rather have the food than not. Looters are going to loot regardless and they are just as likely to target personal possession as they are doing right now in NOLA. So maybe we shouldn't own TV's, stereos, computers, etc.

I have extra food and water for emergencies. It is recomended by the State of California in case of a serious emergency. Not a years worth mind you. If I had a years supply I wouldn't tell people that I did.

Don't forget zombie makeup so you can make yourself start looking more and more gaunt.

Nuthin' makes you look suspicious like chubby pink cheeks when everyone else is starvin'.