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Monotheism vs Polytheism: Which is more likely?

Manopolus

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I am truly agnostic, but I nonetheless consider Polytheism more valid than monotheism due to the simple fact that the universe rarely makes just one of anything.

I'll leave it as simple as that to begin with.

Any thoughts?
 
Well, they both exist, but I don't see any evidence for any gods, so I don't think either is correct.
 
i would think a form of polytheism is more accurate. if there is a god who is "all powerful" and "good" in the way we generally consider good (which I assume isn't the case) ... then to me it stands to reason this god has competition keeping him from doing good things and excercising power. that wonderful, healing power LOL

Even if his competition is a sort of physical law he cannot bend or break ... then that law constrains him and becomes a god as well as far as i'm concerned.

so even if there is just one god ... anything that is in opposition to or restricts this god which actually limits him can be considered a god as well imo. polytheism.

Now, if there is an pre forseen "end" and there will be "victors and losers" ... this is the rationale for siding with god or against god. and if "god" is all alone and merely holding back his "power" or restraining himself, then rationally one should probably "side" with that god. even if you don't agree with him .... esp if there is punishment that is more horrible than god's actual demeanor or nature. It would be considered the lesser of two evils.

"Do you want the awful chicken soup, or the chicken soup with cockroaches in it that will slowly eat your insides out?"

It would be like waging war by yourself against the US. You might die knowing you stood for your principles, but would it really be worth it?

BTW --- I do not believe some of the above argument. It was merely to throw out there.:)
 
Well, they both exist, but I don't see any evidence for any gods, so I don't think either is correct.

Yes, I would agree, but that is not the question. The question is (a little more from your stated viewpoint), did we fall farther into willful ignorance and stupidity with the creation of monotheism than the previous stance of polytheism implied?
 
i would think a form of polytheism is more accurate. if there is a god who is "all powerful" and "good" in the way we generally consider good (which I assume isn't the case) ... then to me it stands to reason this god has competition keeping him from doing good things and excercising power. that wonderful, healing power LOL

Even if his competition is a sort of physical law he cannot bend or break ... then that law constrains him and becomes a god as well as far as i'm concerned.

so even if there is just one god ... anything that is in opposition to or restricts this god which actually limits him can be considered a god as well imo. polytheism.

Now, if there is an pre forseen "end" and there will be "victors and losers" ... this is the rationale for siding with god or against god. and if "god" is all alone and merely holding back his "power" or restraining himself, then rationally one should probably "side" with that god. even if you don't agree with him .... esp if there is punishment that is more horrible than god's actual demeanor or nature. It would be considered the lesser of two evils.

"Do you want the awful chicken soup, or the chicken soup with cockroaches in it that will slowly eat your insides out?"

It would be like waging war by yourself against the US. You might die knowing you stood for your principles, but would it really be worth it?

BTW --- I do not believe some of the above argument. It was merely to throw out there.:)

A "forces in opposition" argument? Stated another way: All the matter and antimatter in the universe equals zero energy. Therefore, if there IS affirmably a God, then there must be an Anti-God. The Christian (and other) beliefs merely deny God's opposite any credibility by denying it (Satan) Godhood.

I LIKE IT!

Or did I misunderstand and project? Your unnatural gift for complexity makes you difficult to understand sometimes, Trentwray.
 
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One sufficiently-powerful god is simpler than numerous not-quite-so-powerful gods.

So, by the principle of Occam's Razor, monotheism would be the more valid argument?

I'll have to think about that one for a bit...

(added)
OK, done thinking. Does the principle of monotheism adequately answer the arguments for a godly religion, or more so than polytheism?

Religion tends not only to suggest that God (or gods) exists, but also attempts to answer the question of why you should hold that being as sacred. This requires an opposing force, bringing back trentway's argument. Without Satan there IS no God, and therefore monotheism is not adequate.
 
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I am truly agnostic, but I nonetheless consider Polytheism more valid than monotheism due to the simple fact that the universe rarely makes just one of anything.

I'll leave it as simple as that to begin with.

Any thoughts?

Most people who believe in a single god, believe that their god created the Universe, instead of the Universe itself making god.

If the Universe created a god (one or many) than wouldn't the Universe be god?
 
A "forces in opposition" argument? Stated another way: All the matter and antimatter in the universe equals zero energy. Therefore, if there IS affirmably a God, then there must be an Anti-God. The Christian (and other) beliefs merely deny God's opposite any credibility by denying it (Satan) Godhood.

I LIKE IT!
Hmm .... you sorta misunderstood I think. It's not so much dualism, so It's not so much an anti-god. Not matter thus anti-matter, or good thus evil, god thus satan, etc.

It's more like: there are multiple god, but Some of them go against each other, some do not. Different parties of the same government. Not multiple competing governments. that would be the key difference I think I'm trying to "hypothetically" describe :)

Communism and American Democracy are more akin to matter verses antimatte where as Republican, Democrat, Conservative, Liberal, etc are somewhat variations on the same theme. Or carbon based life forms verses the idea of silicon based life forms, etc. Multiple gods within the same framework.

So it's not a matter of "fill-up verses void". Not opposites. Competition. You can choose to vote for the god you prefer to be the governor of your "state" so to speak.

The concept of polytheism in this manner of speaking would break down in a dictatorship. Or even a suspended dictatorship. You only have one vote for one god .... regardless of whether you like him or vote for him he will be in charge. And even if you have mulitple governors existing now (i.e. Satan, Muhammad, Allah, Jesus, Joseph Smith, Jehovah, Buddha, Joseph Smith, Vishnu, Anubis, Zeus, Pink Unicorn, etc) they are merely competing gods, possibly vying for a future presidency. This is more along the lines of what I meant. They are vying for presidency of the same country, just variations on a theme. But not "waging war" from outside the universe of anti-matter and gobldygook based life forms, where everything is the bizarro realm used to balance all life ... an eternal arm wrestling match where faithful Christians are merely waiting for the Lord to take Satan "over the top" and show whose strongest, etc. This IS NOT what I was hypothetically describing :)
Or did I misunderstand and project? Your unnatural gift for complexity makes you difficult to understand sometimes, Trentwray.
Man, I'll take that as a compliment coming from a poster on this forum! I have a great deal of respect already for a lot of the minds tossing ideas around here. Critical thinking, logical reasoning, good senses of humor, taking complex issues and breaking them down to understandable parts and fresh perspectives --- I just hope I'm not so simple minded that I'm drawing with crayons while everyone else is scribing with quantum mechanics LOL :)

I will try to be cogniscent of when I could come across as confusing though :)
 
Most people who believe in a single god, believe that their god created the Universe, instead of the Universe itself making god.

If the Universe created a god (one or many) than wouldn't the Universe be god?

Only if the universe is "held sacred," or venerated as a God, for one. Also, the definition of God requires that he be supernatural in nature, meaning that the normal rules of the natural world do not apply to God.

And, like the Universe, a God does not need a beginning, nor an end.
 
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Hmm .... you sorta misunderstood I think. It's not so much dualism, so It's not so much an anti-god. Not matter thus anti-matter, or good thus evil, god thus satan, etc.

It's more like: there are multiple god, but Some of them go against each other, some do not. Different parties of the same government. Not multiple competing governments. that would be the key difference I think I'm trying to "hypothetically" describe

So adequate complexity in the cosmos is required to explain the complexities that exist here on earth? Humans hold multiple points of view, and therefore so must their gods? I could see that being true. As above, so below, and vice versa.
 
I think polytheisms are more satisfying intellectually -- competing forces describe the physical universe better, explain evil -- but monotheisms are more satisfying emotionally -- one god who can do anything to appeal to, to look after you. So even though poly may seem likelier to the mind, the heart likes mono, and minds follow.
 
Is it a Unity vs Diversity issue? I'm starting to think that it is, by definition.

Monotheism requires that everyone follow the same viewpoint, while polytheism values diversity.

(added)
So, from an ethical point of view, Polytheism would be more in keeping with modern eithical values.
 
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One sufficiently-powerful god is simpler than numerous not-quite-so-powerful gods.
Yes --- but it's just not practical. It's like saying, "we are all pre-programmed by fate and destiny" Practically, even if this were true .... the semblance that we still have free will is a reality we have to deal them. So even if monotheism were the case, polytheism is, I think, a more practical way to "communicate" the idea. Now, using the fate/destiny analogy ... if we can understand how free-will and predetermination can co-exist hand in hand ... like light can be both a particle and a wave ... then perhaps if there is only one god, we could understand that concept as well.

Hell, maybe that is what history is "evolving towards"? The move from Olympus to Eden?

Most people who believe in a single god, believe that their god created the Universe, instead of the Universe itself making god.

If the Universe created a god (one or many) than wouldn't the Universe be god?
Yes and no. It would be god if it held captive it's own creations to it's laws and principles purposefully, which would make it a Master God. Otherwise, it would merely be the creative force. "God" could still be God ... if he was able to pick up the Master/Parent reigns successfully. Generally speaking, this would involve I think being able to manipulate purposefully the forces at work in the universe to a degree more so than we can as humans.

But suppose god were "weaker" than us, but had something to bring to the table that only he knew/had, etc? Suppose he created the universe and spent all his "energy" in doing so. Perhaps he can no longer create things, or "fix things" ... but he has one last remaining ability or thing that would greatly benefit us or do harm to us. Or perhaps god grows .... and it takes "time" for him to have certain abilities that would make him more "god-like".

Or again, polytheism ..... he is bound by our choices in whether to trust him, his wife, his son, his opponents, logic, science, nothing, leprechauns, ourselves, etc.

Only if the universe is "held sacred," or venerated as a God, for one. Also, the definition of God requires that he be supernatural in nature, meaning that the normal rules of the natural world do not apply to God.

And, like the Universe, a God does not need a beginning, nor an end.
This is more akin to the classical attributes humans would put on "god" for sure.

I think polytheisms are more satisfying intellectually -- competing forces describe the physical universe better, explain evil -- but monotheisms are more satisfying emotionally -- one god who can do anything to appeal to, to look after you. So even though poly may seem likelier to the mind, the heart likes mono, and minds follow.
Interesting. I wonder if this is because the mind is a multi-tasker and "the heart" or that instinctual drive is usually more focussed on one thing at a time. "I need to eat." "I want to have sex" "I'm afraid". So it basically boils down the multitasking of the mind to one central issue.

Like if I go to a bar to pick up a woman, I use a variety of skillsets/attributes/qualities to my advantage to fulfill one basic concept. And that basic concept is :"find woman for ________ reason"

So when we think we "need" god ... perhaps because our internal instinct has a need but doesn't know where to find it or exactly what it is ..... we try to fill that void by "looking for the unknown." And we look in multiple places, in multiple ways ---- physically, emotionally, and mentally. Thus the multi for the uni ---- the polytheism (finding the unknown in everything with our ability to gather data and reason it to fulfill the unknown instinctual need). We would collectively call this unknown thing "god". And if we found god in multiple places, it would most likely keep the polytheistic concept. But if we were able to identify that instinctual "need", then perhaps both the mind and the instinctual drive would then have a single label ... and so a single god.

Is it a Unity vs Diversity issue? I'm starting to think that it is, by definition.

Monotheism requires that everyone follow the same viewpoint, while polytheism values diversity.

(added)
So, from an ethical point of view, Polytheism would be more in keeping with modern eithical values.
I see what you're saying, but I don't know that I agree that monotheism requires a unified consistent belief of the same overall framework. Polytheism would basically be more of a democratic type theology, where diversity and the freedom to choose "your own thing" is valued. But why does the idea of a single god usually bring up dictatorial ideas? Why can't god be the only god (president so to speak) but have a system of checks and balances that allows others the freedom to view him differently and value different aspects of the same thing (like the variety of states in the US, the legislative, judicial, executive branches .... congress and senators representing the peeps, etc). The idea that some people believe that "god uses islam to speak to the muslims, christianity to speak to the christians, gurus to speak to the Sikh's ... etc etc ... and it's all the same god ..." for them there is a single god who works in a variety of ways, playing multiple roles, using multiple masks. If this is really how god (assuming for this argument there is one) works, it might seem like a bunch of sociopathic, deceiving b.s. .... but generally speaking, humans operate this way anyway. We wear different masks for different occassions, and speak different languages to communicate to each other. A single god could do the same if he/she/it wanted.

So it's more of a Mono-chamelonic-theism. One god, many colors. (that sounds really fluffy and Hallmark-ish). But it doesn't mean necessarily there are many gods. Just that god is more than bipolar :)
 
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So adequate complexity in the cosmos is required to explain the complexities that exist here on earth? Humans hold multiple points of view, and therefore so must their gods? I could see that being true. As above, so below, and vice versa.
Yeah ... it's basically anthropomorphizing god in some ways ... I realize that. It's like saying, "since we humans are complex with our variety of ethics and ideas and culture, so to must god be complex in a similar way."

And I don't think anthropomorphizing is necessarily illogical if you are a Judaeo/Christian. Afterall, they are supposed to believe that humans were made in "gods image." So perhaps if there is a god, he is essentially just like us excecpt more "uber-human"? He can be an a**ho1e, or a jerk, or compassionate, or throw a tantrum, or learn, or make mistakes. He could be as varied and dynamic as us, given certain situations. It doesn't mean he wouldn't be god .... but it doesn't mean I have to like his behavior or attitude either.

God might be "silent" b/c he's going through a phase LOL :) Or maybe it's his "time of the millenium" (period) this millenium. If he exists, and is this way, and he looks at us right now and says, "WTF! I'm not getting my hands in that mess untill 2012!" then he is still the god we have to work with, like a horrible coach of a football team (or the glorious leader of North Korea for example) :) Perhaps we shape god ... he created us to teach him, and realized he ******** up after the fact. :D
 
I see what you're saying, but I don't know that I agree that monotheism requires a unified consistent belief of the same overall framework. Polytheism would basically be more of a democratic type theology, where diversity and the freedom to choose "your own thing" is valued. But why does the idea of a single god usually bring up dictatorial ideas? Why can't god be the only god (president so to speak) but have a system of checks and balances that allows others the freedom to view him differently and value different aspects of the same thing (like the variety of states in the US, the legislative, judicial, executive branches .... congress and senators representing the peeps, etc). The idea that some people believe that "god uses islam to speak to the muslims, christianity to speak to the christians, gurus to speak to the Sikh's ... etc etc ... and it's all the same god ..." for them there is a single god who works in a variety of ways, playing multiple roles, using multiple masks. If this is really how god (assuming for this argument there is one) works, it might seem like a bunch of sociopathic, deceiving b.s. .... but generally speaking, humans operate this way anyway. We wear different masks for different occassions, and speak different languages to communicate to each other. A single god could do the same if he/she/it wanted.

So it's more of a Mono-chamelonic-theism. One god, many colors. (that sounds really fluffy and Hallmark-ish). But it doesn't mean necessarily there are many gods. Just that god is more than bipolar :)

Universal Unitarianism? Isn't this really a push back toward polytheism -- that is, rather than accepting one religion, we accept them all? The Romans didn't have nearly as many gods at the beginning as they did at the end. Their beliefs had them praying to their enemies gods, promising said dieties inclusion into the Roman pantheon. Is this not almost the same thing, or a combination of the two ideas?

(added)
I guess my point is that this is not monotheism in the traditional sense of the term. It fits the definition, but in a way it is something else entirely.
 
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I think polytheisms are more satisfying intellectually -- competing forces describe the physical universe better, explain evil -- but monotheisms are more satisfying emotionally -- one god who can do anything to appeal to, to look after you. So even though poly may seem likelier to the mind, the heart likes mono, and minds follow.

Interesting. I wonder if this is because the mind is a multi-tasker and "the heart" or that instinctual drive is usually more focussed on one thing at a time. "I need to eat." "I want to have sex" "I'm afraid". So it basically boils down the multitasking of the mind to one central issue.

Like if I go to a bar to pick up a woman, I use a variety of skillsets/attributes/qualities to my advantage to fulfill one basic concept. And that basic concept is :"find woman for ________ reason"

So when we think we "need" god ... perhaps because our internal instinct has a need but doesn't know where to find it or exactly what it is ..... we try to fill that void by "looking for the unknown." And we look in multiple places, in multiple ways ---- physically, emotionally, and mentally. Thus the multi for the uni ---- the polytheism (finding the unknown in everything with our ability to gather data and reason it to fulfill the unknown instinctual need). We would collectively call this unknown thing "god". And if we found god in multiple places, it would most likely keep the polytheistic concept. But if we were able to identify that instinctual "need", then perhaps both the mind and the instinctual drive would then have a single label ... and so a single god.


Perhaps the "god-shaped hole" that some believers claim to discover inside themselves or their lives (basically a need for greater "meaning", for assurance this life isn't all there is). It only takes one god to fill that emotional hole, and once it does, the believer can stretch it as thinly as she likes to cover the usual intellectual challenges to god, even past the point of contradiction (the paradox, the mystery of God). Even if upon reflection two or more gods would meet the intellectual challenges better, the emotional need has already been met by the one god, and that sort of bond is hard to break. :o
 
Universal Unitarianism? Isn't this really a push back toward polytheism -- that is, rather than accepting one religion, we accept them all? The Romans didn't have nearly as many gods at the beginning as they did at the end. Their beliefs had them praying to their enemies gods, promising said dieties inclusion into the Roman pantheon. Is this not almost the same thing, or a combination of the two ideas?

(added)
I guess my point is that this is not monotheism in the traditional sense of the term. It fits the definition, but in a way it is something else entirely.
It is sort of like UU, but different than the Roman pantheon. The Roman pantheon of gods believed that all the gods were real. UU (I assume) seem to be the "one road, many paths" or "one tree, many branches" variety. But they believe each branch is part of the same tree, not competing branches (I'm assuming) as the Romans believed. The Romans saw different trees all together when looking at the different gods I imagine.

To me, what the UU might be viewing still isn't polytheism. It is, as you said, perhaps something different all-together and not the classical view of a monotheist. For the average monotheist, their Jesus has flowing auburn hair, or spoke with a British accent ... while to another he appeared in the US and preached to the Native American tribes ... while to another he had olive skin and spoke Aramaic, etc etc. But for most, it couldn't be all of them. If it were true, it would mean their version of Jesus wasn't to be trusted .... almost as though he were "cheating on them." But this still isn't polytheism (in my eyes) even if it were true.

For me, the idea of something competing with god (assuming he exists) thus limiting him, is a god as well ..... if you are able to side with this god. So if god is limited by people for whatever reason, and yet we band together in competition to god ... then we are claiming ourselves our own god. If Zeus is real and a viable option to choose to live under, then he is another god. If there is something outside of our current universal-framework that exists that operates COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from our god, gods, etc .... then that is dualism, another type of polytheism perhaps, but not the type I was describing originally (i.e. The good verses evil, life verses death, opposites existing type of stuff from the first couple of posts to this thread I didn't intend to "support" :) )
 
Perhaps the "god-shaped hole" that some believers claim to discover inside themselves or their lives (basically a need for greater "meaning", for assurance this life isn't all there is). It only takes one god to fill that emotional hole, and once it does, the believer can stretch it as thinly as she likes to cover the usual intellectual challenges to god, even past the point of contradiction (the paradox, the mystery of God). Even if upon reflection two or more gods would meet the intellectual challenges better, the emotional need has already been met by the one god, and that sort of bond is hard to break. :o



domini, domini.





(In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, Amen)


The suckiness of 3 gods is 33% less sucky than one god, per god, if you catch my drift, which i hope you don't, because, evidently, I'm brain damaged.

Now I'm not even sure if my math is correct.


Is a "two for the price of one" a better deal than "Half off"?


Theology and economics make my head hurt, in equal measures.
 

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