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Mitt Romney is a Black Box

Puppycow

Penultimate Amazing
Puppycow
Joined
Jan 9, 2003
Messages
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Location
Yokohama, Japan
He says that he'll "repeal and replace" the Affordable Care Act . . .

but he won't say what he'll replace it with.

He says he'll make his tax cuts revenue neutral by closing "loopholes" . . .

but he won't say what "loopholes" he'll close.

He says he'll balance the budget . . .

but he won't say how he'll do that.

When asked whether he'll reverse president Obama's program to suspend deportations of young illegal immigrants he wouldn't answer yes or no.

He says he won't raise taxes on the middle class . . .

but he laments that 47% of Americans don't pay federal income taxes.

He says he'll create 12 million jobs if elected . . .

but he won't say how he'll do that.

If elected will he carry out the promises he made to Republican voters during the primaries or the promises he's making now to swing voters?
 
Someone from Fox News asked him what book he's reading and he wouldn't even answer that question.

Steve S
 
The man is ruled by fear.

Romney won't get specific because he's afraid that voters won't like it.

It's the same pants-wetting fear we saw with regard to the tax returns. He won't release his tax returns because he's afraid what he discloses will be used against him.

It's the same yellow-stripe fear that prevents him from standing up like a man and apologizing for some of the stupid things he's said (some of which appear to have been said in order to appease his audiences, Romney being too chicken to say anything other than what he though his supporters wanted to hear).

It's the same wimpish fear that has restrained him from standing up to people who purport to be on his side, but who damage his message.
 
I don't like the metaphor. A "black box" is something that works, but you don't know why. We have no evidence that Mitt Romney's mysterious plans would work.
 
Maybe black hole would be better. You can only identify his policies by the energy created as they disappear beyond his event horizon, and then they're gone from our Universe forever?
 
Puppycow said:
He says that he'll "repeal and replace" the Affordable Care Act . . .

but he won't say what he'll replace it with.

He says he'll make his tax cuts revenue neutral by closing "loopholes" . . .

but he won't say what "loopholes" he'll close.

He says he'll balance the budget . . .

but he won't say how he'll do that.

When asked whether he'll reverse president Obama's program to suspend deportations of young illegal immigrants he wouldn't answer yes or no.

He says he won't raise taxes on the middle class . . .

but he laments that 47% of Americans don't pay federal income taxes.

He says he'll create 12 million jobs if elected . . .

but he won't say how he'll do that.

If elected will he carry out the promises he made to Republican voters during the primaries or the promises he's making now to swing voters?
Click to expand...

Magical Economy fairies.
 
I've snipped the post to show the basic point...
Puppycow said:
but he won't say what he'll replace it with.

but he won't say what "loopholes" he'll close.

He says he'll balance the budget . . .

but he won't say how he'll do that.

but he won't say how he'll do that.
----
If elected will he carry out the promises he made to Republican voters during the primaries or the promises he's making now to swing voters?
Click to expand...

The answer is either "no he won't carry out the promises" or "the answer is uncertain". His promise to repeal Obama's healthcare bill for example ignores that he has to get the support through congress to do it effectively, and Democrats ardently support the policy. Other policies are not explained in enough detail to make an accurate depiction of their feasibility, economic and other factors ultimately will determine how other promises are carried out if at all.

This explanation shouldn't be anything new since it's the explanation for why Obama has not carried out many of the overblown and vague promises he made in his 2008 campaign. Candidates like these two like to paint sparkly pictures ignoring the realities of the Oval Office.

So I guess my new question is, how do you interpret this being a feature of both candidates currently and their predecessors? How do you interpret feeling to need to shine a spotlight on this for one candidate but not another? And lastly if the second question doesn't apply to your intent with the OP, how do Romney's actions as a presidential candidate cause surprise in a wold where politicians do this compulsively?
 
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Grizzly Bear said:
I've snipped the post to show the basic point...


The answer is either "no he won't carry out the promises" or "the answer is uncertain". His promise to repeal Obama's healthcare bill for example ignores that he has to get the support through congress to do it effectively, and Democrats ardently support the policy. Other policies are not explained in enough detail to make an accurate depiction of their feasibility, economic and other factors ultimately will determine how other promises are carried out if at all.

This explanation shouldn't be anything new since it's the explanation for why Obama has not carried out many of the overblown and vague promises he made in his 2008 campaign. Candidates like these two like to paint sparkly pictures ignoring the realities of the Oval Office.

So I guess my new question is, how do you interpret this being a feature of both candidates currently and their predecessors? How do you interpret feeling to need to shine a spotlight on this for one candidate but not another? And lastly if the second question doesn't apply to your intent with the OP, how do Romney's actions as a presidential candidate cause surprise in a wold where politicians do this compulsively?
Click to expand...

This is just not accurate. In 2008, Barack Obama laid out his health care plan in detail. And with some exceptions, the ACA is remarkably close to what was passed. So if you voted for Obama, you knew you were voting for the ACA and when it passed, you got what you voted for.

With Romney, what does "replace" even mean? Can you name a single feature of Romney's new "health care law"? I mean, even one feature?

Obama also proposed financial regulations, and indeed, he passed the Dodd-Frank bill, which matched what he proposed.

He said if Bin Laden was in Pakistan, he'd go over the border and get him. And guess what? He did.

That's not to say he fulfilled all of his promises, but prior to his election, we knew what those promises were.

Again, if Romney were to successfully repeal Obamacare, with what would he replace it? No one knows. That's the point.
 
Brown said:
The man is ruled by fear.

Romney won't get specific because he's afraid that voters won't like it.

It's the same pants-wetting fear we saw with regard to the tax returns. He won't release his tax returns because he's afraid what he discloses will be used against him.

It's the same yellow-stripe fear that prevents him from standing up like a man and apologizing for some of the stupid things he's said (some of which appear to have been said in order to appease his audiences, Romney being too chicken to say anything other than what he though his supporters wanted to hear).

It's the same wimpish fear that has restrained him from standing up to people who purport to be on his side, but who damage his message.
Click to expand...

And I most certainly do not want a man with that kind of weak fibre running the country.
 
Unabogie said:
Again, if Romney were to successfully repeal Obamacare, with what would he replace it? No one knows. That's the point.
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My "point" is that this is mostly old news to anyone with a reasonable following of Romney's and Obama's campaign. Additionally the feasibility of said promises is not only affected by said candidates being non specific about their alternatives, but also by partisan politics in congress which have their own impact on the POTUS's ability to carry them out, and economic conditions of that period. This is applicable to both the POTUS and him without exception.

As far as the healthcare issue... I'm kind of a realist... even if Romney had a backup plan to replace the healthcare overhaul after he repealed it, I find that his ability to actually do the repeal will turn out differently than he expects; democrats will not allow it. Obama had something like this happen to him when he promised to shut down the Guantanamo prison, since the logistics of doing so were never sorted out, and I would have been shocked if that promise did manage to come to fruition.

Obama's kept a bunch of his promises too, as I'd expect mr. Romney to do as well, but the whole mess is sorting out which ones are works of fantasy thinking and which promises have a grounding in reality. For anything that does have a realistic shot at success I think the vagueness argument is legitimate, but at the end of the day... other hurdles stand in the way that could cut those promises before they reach that point
 
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Grizzly Bear said:
As far as the healthcare issue... I'm kind of a realist... even if Romney had a backup plan to replace the healthcare overhaul after he repealed it, I find that his ability to actually do the repeal will turn out differently than he expects; democrats will not allow it. Obama had something like this happen to him when he promised to shut down the Guantanamo prison, since the logistics of doing so were never sorted out, and I would have been shocked if that promise did manage to come to fruition.

Obama's kept a bunch of his promises too, as I'd expect mr. Romney to do as well,
Click to expand...

But that's the point. What promises? The problem is that you can't name any of them since Romney won't be specific about his intentions. He'll "grow the economy" and "unleash American innovation"? He'll "close loopholes"?

With Obama, you have concrete details about his health care plan.

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/Pub...th-Reform-Proposals--Choices-for-America.aspx

Can you point to anything analogous with Romney?
 
Grizzly Bear said:
The answer is either "no he won't carry out the promises" or "the answer is uncertain". His promise to repeal Obama's healthcare bill for example ignores that he has to get the support through congress to do it effectively, and Democrats ardently support the policy. Other policies are not explained in enough detail to make an accurate depiction of their feasibility, economic and other factors ultimately will determine how other promises are carried out if at all.
Click to expand...

This doesn't apply to the question of whether he'll reverse president Obama's program to suspend deportations of young illegal immigrants. Obama did that with an executive order, and Romney could reverse it with an executive order.

As far as the more general point that presidents still have to convince congress to pass the legislation they want, that's true far all candidates for president. I understand that. When they promise to do X, if X is something that would require an act of congress, I understand that to mean that they will try to get congress to do X and will sign it if they do it. My issue here is that he won't say specifically what he wants them to do.
 
Puppycow said:
As far as the more general point that presidents still have to convince congress to pass the legislation they want, that's true far all candidates for president. I understand that. When they promise to do X, if X is something that would require an act of congress, I understand that to mean that they will try to get congress to do X and will sign it if they do it. My issue here is that he won't say specifically what he wants them to do.
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And THIS is why I'm puzzled as to why people keep blaming Obama for Guantanamo still being open.
 
Mittens has the same position as the former healthcare company I had at one company I worked for. The rep for that company told me "well, if you don't have this treatment, maybe you'll die and get off our books".

That's Romney's plan, let the old, infirm, and unwilling to work for slave wages die. And for that matter, let the slaves die, too, there's always more...
 
I saw a Ryan interview where the journalist was pressing him for details about the tax loopholes they'd close, and Ryan said something to the effect that that's a conversation and debate we'll have in Congress after Romney-Ryan gets elected.

Right. We won't have that debate before the election, but will vote for these guys because we trust them, and then after they're in, we'll find we have no proposal whatsoever but will merely rely on Congress to get it done.

Yeah, that'll happen. :rolleyes:
 
JoeTheJuggler said:
I saw a Ryan interview where the journalist was pressing him for details about the tax loopholes they'd close, and Ryan said something to the effect that that's a conversation and debate we'll have in Congress after Romney-Ryan gets elected.
Click to expand...


I saw Romney say the same thing once using nearly identical language. It's amazing how the media let's this nonsense slide.

Steve S
 
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