Michael Moore Responds to BFC Critics

[Mr Manifesto]

I liked Moore's documentary 'Bowling for Columbine'. Of course, after it was released, you couldn't look left on the internet without seeing a page on the 'lies' in BFC. Some of the links to these pages were posted on JREF.

Michael Moore responds to his critics

Interestingly enough, the bank scene wasn't 'rigged', and Charlton Heston didn't read his speech '900 miles away and one year after Columbine'.

Of course, my opinions aren't set in stone. If there are any flaws in Moore's documentary that he hasn't addressed, I'd like to know about them.

One flaw which I don't believe he has addressed is his 'gun deaths' which doesn't look at compartive murder rates. That's why I find this site useful (a pro-gun site, btw).

And before any of the usual gun nuts start ranting, keep in mind that the issue is gun control, not banning them.

 

[Tony]

His lies have already been proven, there is nothing he can say that will make his lying come true.

 

[Matabiri]

What I'd heard/read was not that the facts were wrong, but that they were presented in a very leading way. Which is his right as editor/director, I suppose.

My chief objection is that he isn't actually funny, but that's a personal opinion. Have you heard of Mark Thomas?

http://www.mtcp.co.uk/

Similar, but funnier.

Rich

 

[aerocontrols]

A critic responds back

 

[Ranb]

>>>>>>>>And before any of the usual gun nuts start ranting, keep in mind that the issue is gun control, not banning them.>>>>>>>>

It is about banning guns. No rational American gun owner should allow him/herself to think otherwise. Michael Moore sides with The Brady Campaign To Prevent Gun Violence. This group clearly hates gun owners and does not hesitate to lie on it's website to promote their version of morality.

Moore says, " The sheer power and threat of the NRA is reason enough to strike fear in any movie studio or theater chain." Yeah right!!! That is a good one. If the NRA was so powerful, then a piece of crap movie like The Runaway Jury would not be on the screen.

I have not watched BFC, so I do not have an opinion on it. But Moore's words on his own website speak for themselves. He does not like gun owners. People like him and the Brady group who say they do not want to ban guns, but only control them are lying. Their idea of common sense gun control laws are banning any guns they do not like.

Many of the gun control laws on the books in the USA today merely serve to excessively control or ban guns that law abiding citizens want to own. If I was caught with my Browning 22lr target pistol in Hawaii, I would be in prison for owning an assault pistol. If I decide to use my legally owned suppressor (aka silencer) at the rifle range in Washington state, it is 6 months behind bars. Making or buying a standard capacity magazine (30 rounds) for my ar15 can put me in hot water too. Making a semi-auto ar15 with a threaded barrel is illegal now, but machineguns are still allowed to be owned and built for private ownership here in the USA. Trimming a rifle barrel down to 15.75" without paying a $200 tax and getting permission from the local sherrif is a good way to end up in the slammer too.

That these are examples of victimless crimes does not stop the Brady bunch from getting all worked up over gun ownership and lobbying to create more oppressive gun control laws in a country that already has too many.

Ranb

 

[GroundStrength]

>>>>>>>>And before any of the usual gun nuts start ranting, keep in mind that the issue is gun control, not banning them.>>>>>>>>

It is about banning guns. No rational American gun owner should allow him/herself to think otherwise. Michael Moore sides with The Brady Campaign To Prevent Gun Violence. This group clearly hates gun owners and does not hesitate to lie on it's website to promote their version of morality.

Moore says, " The sheer power and threat of the NRA is reason enough to strike fear in any movie studio or theater chain." Yeah right!!! That is a good one. If the NRA was so powerful, then a piece of crap movie like The Runaway Jury would not be on the screen.

I have not watched BFC, so I do not have an opinion on it. But Moore's words on his own website speak for themselves. He does not like gun owners. People like him and the Brady group who say they do not want to ban guns, but only control them are lying. Their idea of common sense gun control laws are banning any guns they do not like.

Many of the gun control laws on the books in the USA today merely serve to excessively control or ban guns that law abiding citizens want to own. If I was caught with my Browning 22lr target pistol in Hawaii, I would be in prison for owning an assault pistol. If I decide to use my legally owned suppressor (aka silencer) at the rifle range in Washington state, it is 6 months behind bars. Making or buying a standard capacity magazine (30 rounds) for my ar15 can put me in hot water too. Making a semi-auto ar15 with a threaded barrel is illegal now, but machineguns are still allowed to be owned and built for private ownership here in the USA. Trimming a rifle barrel down to 15.75" without paying a $200 tax and getting permission from the local sherrif is a good way to end up in the slammer too.

That these are examples of victimless crimes does not stop the Brady bunch from getting all worked up over gun ownership and lobbying to create more oppressive gun control laws in a country that already has too many.

Ranb

Amen.

Any form of gun control will only 'control' law abiding citizens. Thugs, punks, gang members and trash would not obey any law concerning gun control.

 

[Chaos]

>>>>>>>>And before any of the usual gun nuts start ranting, keep in mind that the issue is gun control, not banning them.>>>>>>>>

It is about banning guns. No rational American gun owner should allow him/herself to think otherwise. Michael Moore sides with The Brady Campaign To Prevent Gun Violence. This group clearly hates gun owners and does not hesitate to lie on it's website to promote their version of morality.

I confess I have not seen BfC myself, but I heard repeatedly that Moore concludes that the problem is not guns, but the American culture itself - which would mean it is not about banning guns.

 

[Dancing David]

His lies have already been proven, there is nothing he can say that will make his lying come true.

For those of us who missed it, which parts are the lies? I realize how much editing goes into a movie, but a lot of what has been said about the movie is alos not true.

The most damning thing I heard was that he rearranged the order of the various parts of the interview to make Heston look dumb, ala 60 Minutes.

Surely bowling leading to gun deaths is true!

 

[Dancing David]

I confess I have not seen BfC myself, but I heard repeatedly that Moore concludes that the problem is not guns, but the American culture itself - which would mean it is not about banning guns.

Quite true, he does point out that canada has as many guns in freedom as the US, he basicaly doesn't make any points except for the evilness of the NRA and american hysteria.

 

[Dancing David]

No way to prove it either way, I just want to register guns, because I think a lot of stolen guns aren't stolen they are sold and then resold.

My compromise is that allowing for gun registration would mean that any weapon except a nuclear weapon could be owned by a citizen, no restriction.(period).

But if you get your weapon stolen it must be reported as stolen.

So is it a deal, no more silly laws about automatic weapons and the size of magazines that clip onto guns, you can own any weapon as long as it is registered and you accept full responsibility for it. So if a neighbor kid steals your tank, you have a consequence.

Is that fair?

Second point, cities outlaw the freedom of the press all the time, should cities be allowed to ban guns?(Stupid but feasible)

 

[Ranb]

I confess I have not seen BfC myself, but I heard repeatedly that Moore concludes that the problem is not guns, but the American culture itself - which would mean it is not about banning guns.

Take a look at the link posted by Manifesto. It clearly shows that Moore supports The Brady Campaign To Prevent Gun Violence. I was not commenting on his movie, just on his personal attributes. He supports a group of people who hate gun-owning Americans. The Brady Campaign is trying to ban guns here in the USA, and they tell lies to do it. He say he will give them money to support their twisted cause.

There is of course a gun violence problem in America. But a supporting a hate group like Brady is not the way to solve it. Perhaps you have heard of the saying, "Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas." Moore has fleas.

Ranb

 

[DavidJames]

"group of people who hate gun-owning Americans"

Could you please provide some evidence of this?

I briefly looked at the Brady site and found this quote:

"The Brady Campaign works to enact and enforce sensible gun laws, regulations and public policies through grassroots activism, electing pro-gun control public officials and increasing public awareness of gun violence."

Can you provide evidence to support your claim that:

"Brady Campaign is trying to ban guns here in the USA"

 

[aerocontrols]

For those of us who missed it, which parts are the lies? I realize how much editing goes into a movie, but a lot of what has been said about the movie is alos not true.

The most damning thing I heard was that he rearranged the order of the various parts of the interview to make Heston look dumb, ala 60 Minutes.

Surely bowling leading to gun deaths is true!

Try here. I think the most damning thing he did was altering a Bush/Quayle campaign commercial about furloughs. He added text specifically referring to Willie Horton to the commercial, making it appear that the Bush/Quayle campaign had run the commercial with the text. The text, by the way, falsely asserts that Horton 'killed again' while on furlough.

Moore apparently thinks that his alteration is fairly damning as well, considering that he has further changed it for the DVD release. He know has changed the caption to correctly state that Horton raped a woman and stabbed her boyfriend. The caption still appears to be a part of the campaign commercial, though it never was.

He staged the scene at the bank:

Forbes reports that an early scene in "Bowling" in which Mr. Moore tries to demonstrate how easy it is to obtain guns in America was staged. He goes to a small bank in Traverse City, Mich., that offers various inducements to open an account and claims "I put $1,000 in a long-term account, they did the background check, and, within an hour, I walked out with my new Weatherby," a rifle.

But Jan Jacobson, the bank employee who worked with Mr. Moore on his account, says that only happened because Mr. Moore's film company had worked for a month to stage the scene. "What happened at the bank was a prearranged thing," she says. The gun was brought from a gun dealer in another city, where it would normally have to be picked up. "Typically, you're looking at a week to 10 days waiting period," she says. Ms. Jacobson feels used: "He just portrayed us as backward hicks."

I recommend all of Spinsanity's research, from Moore and Scheer and Rall to Limbaugh and Coulter and O'Reilley.

 

[Tony]

For those of us who missed it, which parts are the lies?

I dont see how you could miss it, it was posted on this very website a long time ago, with sources and everything. I forgot who posted it, but I think he has a Bugs Bunny avatar.

 

[Skeptic]

Many of the gun control laws on the books in the USA today merely serve to excessively control or ban guns that law abiding citizens want to own. If I was caught with my Browning 22lr target pistol in Hawaii, I would be in prison for owning an assault pistol. If I decide to use my legally owned suppressor (aka silencer) at the rifle range in Washington state, it is 6 months behind bars. Making or buying a standard capacity magazine (30 rounds) for my ar15 can put me in hot water too. Making a semi-auto ar15 with a threaded barrel is illegal now, but machineguns are still allowed to be owned and built for private ownership here in the USA. Trimming a rifle barrel down to 15.75" without paying a $200 tax and getting permission from the local sherrif is a good way to end up in the slammer too.

Is it just me, or does this paragraph display a worrying tone of increasingly dangerous weapons? First a pistol, then a silencer (to use on a rifle range? Go figure), then a 30-cartridge magazine for a semiautomatic rifle, then a privately-owned machine gun, then a sawed-off shotgun...

I can see the next paragraph: "Modifying my hand grenades is TOTALLY outlawed now, I need a special permit for my APC, My Abrams' tank has to be registered, and don't speak to me about the mess I had with that H-bomb..."

Really, having a pistol, a silencer, a semiautomatic with 30-bullet clips and a machine gun should be enough no matter how p*ssed off you are. Do you REALLY need that sawed-off shotgun as well?

 

[Grammatron]

Many of the gun control laws on the books in the USA today merely serve to excessively control or ban guns that law abiding citizens want to own. If I was caught with my Browning 22lr target pistol in Hawaii, I would be in prison for owning an assault pistol. If I decide to use my legally owned suppressor (aka silencer) at the rifle range in Washington state, it is 6 months behind bars. Making or buying a standard capacity magazine (30 rounds) for my ar15 can put me in hot water too. Making a semi-auto ar15 with a threaded barrel is illegal now, but machineguns are still allowed to be owned and built for private ownership here in the USA. Trimming a rifle barrel down to 15.75" without paying a $200 tax and getting permission from the local sherrif is a good way to end up in the slammer too.

Is it just me, or does this paragraph display a worrying tone of increasingly dangerous weapons? First a pistol, then a silencer (to use on a rifle range? Go figure), then a 30-cartridge magazine for a semiautomatic rifle, then a privately-owned machine gun, then a sawed-off shotgun...

I can see the next paragraph: "Modifying my hand grenades is TOTALLY outlawed now, I need a special permit for my APC, My Abrams' tank has to be registered, and don't speak to me about the mess I had with that H-bomb..."

Really, having a pistol, a silencer, a semiautomatic with 30-bullet clips and a machine gun should be enough no matter how p*ssed off you are. Do you REALLY need that sawed-off shotgun as well?

Though the question was not directed at me, let me answer it in two parts. First part, yes I do. Second part, who the heck are you to tell me what I do or do not need?

 

[deanerk]

OK, so you do need a sawed off shotgun and you don't have to answer why. As an owner of several shotguns I just wanted to say that I've never had the need for a shorter barrel. I don't do a whole lot of short range hunting.

 

[EdipisReks]

OK, so you do need a sawed off shotgun and you don't have to answer why. As an owner of several shotguns I just wanted to say that I've never had the need for a shorter barrel. I don't do a whole lot of short range hunting.

good luck using a 24 incher in close quarters against a home invader.

 

[deanerk]

Sorry, I don't hunt home invaders. In fact I'm not sure how that works. Enlighten me. I wouldn't reach for a shotgun if my home was invaded.

 

[Ranb]

"group of people who hate gun-owning Americans"

Could you please provide some evidence of this?

I briefly looked at the Brady site and found this quote:

"The Brady Campaign works to enact and enforce sensible gun laws, regulations and public policies through grassroots activism, electing pro-gun control public officials and increasing public awareness of gun violence."

Can you provide evidence to support your claim that:

"Brady Campaign is trying to ban guns here in the USA"

Take a longer look at their website and you can see what they want. Their front page looks all nice, but look deeper and you get this.

http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/issuebriefs/loophole.asp

Here is where they demonize private transactions between gun owners. They want the government involved everytime I want to buy or sell a gun. There is no such thing as a gunshow or internet loophole. Licensed dealers are ALWAYS supposed to comply with the federal Brady law when transferring a firearm, all others NEVER have to. No loophole here, it is about taking away a right that Americans now have.

They have also demonized standard capcity magazines by labeling them as "high capacity" and trying to ban manufacture and importation.

Here are more lies from the Brady bunch.

http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/issuebriefs/aw_safesec.asp

"A BATF survey of 735 hunting guides, conducted during the administration of President George H. W. Bush, found that sportsmen do not use assault weapons."

Appearantly, the opinions of 735 people are enough to convince the Brady group that no real American would dare use an "assualt rifle" for sport shooting. Very undemocratic and unamerican of them to say this. I guess they do not think target shooting is a sport.

"A threaded barrel designed to attach a silencer, which is useful to assassins but clearly has no purpose for sportsmen. Silencers are illegal so there is no legitimate purpose for making it possible to put a silencer on a weapon."

This is a obvious lie. Silencers are legal in most states of the Union. They also prevent the most common injury asocciated with shooting; hearing loss. Silencers do not actually silence a firearm, they only reduce the noise. It is very rare that a weapon firing a bullet fast and heavy enough to do harm can be quieted down less than 100 decibels. They would brand me as an assassin because I build my own suppressors after paying a $200 tax for each.

http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts/issuebriefs/50_cal.asp

"While there is no evidence that the .50 caliber sniper rifle was designed for recreational use, its manufacturers have often labeled it as a sporting rifle to legitimize their sale of this deadly weapon to the public."

The M2 50 cal machinegun is a war weapon. The single shot and semi-auto rifles were made for the civilian market. Just because the military found a use for them does not make them "designed for war". I participate in a shooting match each month ( I try anyway) using my 50 caliber rifle. Here is where I do it. http://www.members.tripod.com/unsc/benchrest/PNW50SA/PacificNorthwest50shooters.htm This page also shows me shooting my "sniper" rifle. Believe it or not, dispite what the Brady group says, I am enjoying myself and am not a terrorist in training. They would want you to believe that the 50bmg rifle is an effective terror weapon. It is so "effective" it has never been used in America as a terror weapon. I do not think it has been used to murder anyone in the USA either. If it had, you can be sure they would be touting the event on this link.

The Brady organization wants to prohibit myself and other good Americans from owning the firearms we want and backs laws that would put a non-violent person in jail for merely owning a banned weapon. This tells me they hate gun owners.

Start thinking for yourself and don't let these creeps dupe you into thinking they do not hate gun owners.

Ranb