Michael Moore expresses Joy at GM Demise!

[applecorped]

"So here we are at the deathbed of General Motors. The company's body not yet cold, and I find myself filled with -- dare I say it -- joy. It is not the joy of revenge against a corporation that ruined my hometown and brought misery, divorce, alcoholism, homelessness, physical and mental debilitation, and drug addiction to the people I grew up with."


http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php?id=248


Ooooops. Went were I shouldn't have.

 

[tyr_13]

That's a lot to blame GM for, and obviously I'm skeptical of it.

That isn't to say that GM going bankrupt might not be a good thing in the long run however. It probably needed to happen, and Hummer and Pontiac specifically had to die.

Seriously, an H2 that costs twice what the mechanically identical Yukon costs? Big surprise that people stopped buying it. What is funny is all the conservatards (not that if you are conservative you're a retard, but people who are both) talking about how the government (the US and Canada) is going to force GM to make small cars that 'nobody wants'. This ignores the fact that GM has been making cars that no one wants to buy that are large. Whatever.

 

[lionking]

Moore has yet to make a rational comment which stands up to the slightest scrutiny.

 

[Roadtoad]

Yep, that Mike Moore. He's one classy guy...

Well, I can't say I'm surprised. He's been jonesin' for something like this for years. Now he's got it. But I'd be very surprised if he got any of the environmental goodies he's hoping for out of this.

 

[fullflavormenthol]

Well I am not happy. It isn't like GM went under and investors were able to buy out the remainnig components. The company is on life support from the government, and I honestly believe they are going to push the same SUV's that they had before.

I mean I can be wrong about this, and I hope I am; apparently I am now a shareholder.

 

[boloboffin]

Some context to Moore's quoted section above:

It is with sad irony that the company which invented "planned obsolescence" -- the decision to build cars that would fall apart after a few years so that the customer would then have to buy a new one -- has now made itself obsolete. It refused to build automobiles that the public wanted, cars that got great gas mileage, were as safe as they could be, and were exceedingly comfortable to drive. Oh -- and that wouldn't start falling apart after two years. GM stubbornly fought environmental and safety regulations. Its executives arrogantly ignored the "inferior" Japanese and German cars, cars which would become the gold standard for automobile buyers. And it was hell-bent on punishing its unionized workforce, lopping off thousands of workers for no good reason other than to "improve" the short-term bottom line of the corporation. Beginning in the 1980s, when GM was posting record profits, it moved countless jobs to Mexico and elsewhere, thus destroying the lives of tens of thousands of hard-working Americans. The glaring stupidity of this policy was that, when they eliminated the income of so many middle class families, who did they think was going to be able to afford to buy their cars? History will record this blunder in the same way it now writes about the French building the Maginot Line or how the Romans cluelessly poisoned their own water system with lethal lead in its pipes.

And Michael's joy is over what he sees can be done with the GM plants to keep people working. What did you think about his plan?

 

[tyr_13]

Some context to Moore's quoted section above:



And Michael's joy is over what he sees can be done with the GM plants to keep people working. What did you think about his plan?

I don't see a 'plan' there at all. Although the criticisms seem spot on for once. Besides the 'punishing' of the Union work force. Not that I don't think it screwed it's workers a few times, but the union screwed itself too.

Please note that I'm not an expert on the auto industry and was born in 1983.

 

[boloboffin]

I don't see a 'plan' there at all. Although the criticisms seem spot on for once. Besides the 'punishing' of the Union work force. Not that I don't think it screwed it's workers a few times, but the union screwed itself too.

Please note that I'm not an expert on the auto industry and was born in 1983.

There was a nine-point numbered plan, the bulk of the article.

 

[Skeptic]

Moore, it is quite obvious, much rather have all his home town live on welfare -- THAT is just fine -- than work for a living in one of those eeeeeeeeeevil big corporations.

Of course Flint is just "his" hometown by adoption, a fact he tried to hide, but then again, lying is a second nature to him.

 

[Megalodon]

"So here we are at the deathbed of General Motors. The company's body not yet cold, and I find myself filled with -- dare I say it -- joy. It is not the joy of revenge against a corporation that ruined my hometown and brought misery, divorce, alcoholism, homelessness, physical and mental debilitation, and drug addiction to the people I grew up with."


http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php?id=248


Ooooops. Went were I shouldn't have.

"So here we are at the deathbed of General Motors. The company's body not yet cold, and I find myself filled with -- dare I say it -- joy. It is not the joy of revenge against a corporation that ruined my hometown and brought misery, divorce, alcoholism, homelessness, physical and mental debilitation, and drug addiction to the people I grew up with. Nor do I, obviously, claim any joy in knowing that 21,000 more GM workers will be told that they, too, are without a job.

But you and I and the rest of America now own a car company! I know, I know -- who on earth wants to run a car company? Who among us wants $50 billion of our tax dollars thrown down the rat hole of still trying to save GM? Let's be clear about this: The only way to save GM is to kill GM. Saving our precious industrial infrastructure, though, is another matter and must be a top priority. If we allow the shutting down and tearing down of our auto plants, we will sorely wish we still had them when we realize that those factories could have built the alternative energy systems we now desperately need. And when we realize that the best way to transport ourselves is on light rail and bullet trains and cleaner buses, how will we do this if we've allowed our industrial capacity and its skilled workforce to disappear?

Thus, as GM is "reorganized" by the federal government and the bankruptcy court, here is the plan I am asking President Obama to implement for the good of the workers, the GM communities, and the nation as a whole."

I wonder how many replied to the bolded portion without clicking the link...

 

[GreNME]

That's a lot to blame GM for, and obviously I'm skeptical of it.

That isn't to say that GM going bankrupt might not be a good thing in the long run however. It probably needed to happen, and Hummer and Pontiac specifically had to die.

Seriously, an H2 that costs twice what the mechanically identical Yukon costs? Big surprise that people stopped buying it. What is funny is all the conservatards (not that if you are conservative you're a retard, but people who are both) talking about how the government (the US and Canada) is going to force GM to make small cars that 'nobody wants'. This ignores the fact that GM has been making cars that no one wants to buy that are large. Whatever.

Considering the size of GM, the earlier arguments from last year about banking institutions being "too big to fail" have pretty much evaporated. I'm neither happy nor sad that this has happened to GM, mainly because they've brought much of it on themselves. The rest was brought on by an ever-increasingly corrupt UAW and government legislation that continues to subsidize the gasoline instead of regulating the production. Ford either needs to take a lesson from this or look forward to following suit in a few years.

 

[Beerina]

The US auto companies make tons of money from big cars with luxury features. In bad times, nobody buys them.

So their business model is to lose some billions in that time, rather than gear up for tiny cars, which, by the time they were done gearing up, would no longer be in demand.


These companies already did crap for the government like selling Ford Excorts at a $2000 loss per car just to keep close to the CAFE standards.


So, ya, the people love the hot air the politicians blow on them, but don't actually back it up with purchase decisions.


As for the current situation, you'll note Ford stayed out of it because they knew the government would demand bankruptcy, and the Ford family would lose control of Ford, end of story.


Once the government started heaving out *thousands* of billions of dollars, the companies saw the writing on the wall and, suddenly, their situations were far more dire. Which is to say, they weren't.

And in any case, given it's a Democratic government atm, they can unload the unions without the unions bitching too much, or at least having their anger redirect against Obama more than the companies.



As for Moore, keep in mind he lives in a world where businessmen and engineers and scientists labor hard so they can earn no more money than an uneducated buffoon on the assembly line, who would be lucky to not starve to death, left to his own devices.

 

[boooeee]

Of course Flint is just "his" hometown by adoption, a fact he tried to hide, but then again, lying is a second nature to him.

How so? Wiki says he was born in Flint and raised in a nearby suburb.

 

[tyr_13]

There was a nine-point numbered plan, the bulk of the article.

That's what I get for only reading four paragraphs in.

At any rate, while I do agree that there needs to be massive investment and expansion of public transportation, Moore takes this to what I'll call the 'illogical extreme'. His first point is stupidly communist. Now, I'm all for the US and Canada, now the largest shareholders of GM, force them to build new types of transportation, including trains, buses and efficient hybrids (not the silly acceleration hybrids). But to couch the argument in a Pearl Harbor only gives ammo to opponents. Then to go into the entire 'oil companies = evil' turns off otherwise receptive folk.

Point two is a false dichotomy. You keep those people employed doing just that buy putting the money in.

Point three is nice, but the US isn't Japan. I love Japan, I speak Japanese, and badly want to return there. However, the train system of Japan works because of their dense population. Much of the country is mountain. Those trains won't work as well in the US. They still need built, and will help greatly. Over all I agree with this point.

Can't argue with point four except to point out that there are other places that already build these trains (Erie, PA).

Now point five is just wishful thinking. This massively underestimates how spread out people are in rural areas, the type of travel they do, and overestimates the abilities of buses. I'd love this to work but it simply won't until we have robot cars.

Six is nice thought, but betrays that Moore just doesn't like cars. Still, the gist I agree with; hybrids and electrics are the next thing.

Seven is more wishful thinking. A car factory is fundamentally different from a solar panel plant. Yes, I want more solar and wind power, but these plants can't just build them. Well, it would be fairly easy to convert some for windmills, but again, there are other places that build these already. Not a terrible idea.

I agree with eight, but with reservations. Don't want it to be too easy to exploit and create a 'green screen'.

Nine is dumb. Like, 'piss off 75% of the population' dumb and will make most people dismiss everything else said. This is also the wrong way to do things. Moore just doesn't understand what it is to work with the economic system. He just seems to want to bludgeon it.

There is a lot of wiggle room in all these arguments though.

 

[Robster FCD]

I'm kind of hopeful. Every car I have ever driven is GM or Ford. My next car won't be unless GM produces a quality fuel efficient vehicle, and I have little confidence that they will. I'm hopeful because maybe GM will come out on the other side adapting to the changing economy. What does not adapt, adopt and improve to change will die off.

 

[six7s]

Moore has yet to make a rational comment which stands up to the slightest scrutiny.

You reckon?

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php?id=248

If we allow the shutting down and tearing down of our auto plants, we will sorely wish we still had them when we realize that those factories could have built the alternative energy systems we now desperately need. And when we realize that the best way to transport ourselves is on light rail and bullet trains and cleaner buses, how will we do this if we've allowed our industrial capacity and its skilled workforce to disappear?

Your Mileage May Vary

 

[Nogbad]

The GM stuff over here is OK - The German Government appears to have ensured that Opel at least will continue, although no longer GM obviously.

 

[dudalb]

Moore just doesn't understand what it is to work with the economic system. He just seems to want to bludgeon it

What else is new?
Moore is not a mainstream liberal;he is almost Marxist in his dislike of business and his advocacy of the Government pretty much controlling every major aspect of the economy. He moderates his opinions in a mainstream enviormental. On his website and among fellow radicals his real beliefs come out.
As for his plan: A couple of good points ruined by a bunch of unrealistic, pie in the sky nonsense.
In the end he is advocating de facto government seizure of the entire automobile industry,and seems to want to force Americans out of privately owned cares.
Like any party the does those two things is going to survive very long at the polls.

 

[six7s]

As for his plan: A couple of good points ruined by a bunch of unrealistic, pie in the sky nonsense.

Seems that he makes many people think, though

Is that a problem for big business to solve?

 

[dudalb]

Seems that he makes many people think, though

Is that a problem for big business to solve?

Hell, Bozo the clown can cause a lot of people to think.