MICHAEL ANDA, and CD quality

[Robaato]

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53824

Oh, this should be interesting.

I'm curious about some aspects of his proposed protocol. First, he says that when discs are swapped, he will either stay in his seat or else move to another room, at his discretion. If this is to be properly double-blinded, wouldn't it require that a) he move to another room each time, and b) the disc swapper(s) leave the room before he returns?

The idea that he could have them switch the discs many times before he even gives one attempt also seems unneeded to me. I would think that if Mr. Anda could truly discern between treated and untreated discs, this would be unnecessary.

The business with the T and N markers seems a bit over-elaborate, as well. Wouldn't it be simpler to just state audibly whether the disc is the treated one or not? And then, keep a written record of his attempts. I wouldn't reveal whether he is correct or not until the end of the process either, but that's just my opinion.

After he listens to each one in an open test, so he can get the feel of any differences, I would then determine in advance when each disc would be played, with a coin flip or something. I would do a set number of trials, rather than an open-ended series of switches until Mr. Anda decides to make an attempt.

Also, I wonder about that "Walker Audio Vivid" thing. After a quick google search turned up some of the claims made about Audio Vivid, I think you could run the same tests for this stuff too...

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

I'm curious about some aspects of his proposed protocol. First, he says that when discs are swapped, he will either stay in his seat or else move to another room, at his discretion. If this is to be properly double-blinded, wouldn't it require that a) he move to another room each time, and b) the disc swapper(s) leave the room before he returns?

Shouldn't matter. Thikn about this: I leave two discs in a room. One was treated, one wasn't. You can swap them in and out all you want. You don't know which once is which. That's the point.

The idea that he could have them switch the discs many times before he even gives one attempt also seems unneeded to me. I would think that if Mr. Anda could truly discern between treated and untreated discs, this would be unnecessary.

He shouldn't even see which discs are treated. So he could do whatever he wanted with them. Seems reasonable to me to want to swap discs in and out to make a comparison of quality.

The business with the T and N markers seems a bit over-elaborate, as well. Wouldn't it be simpler to just state audibly whether the disc is the treated one or not? And then, keep a written record of his attempts. I wouldn't reveal whether he is correct or not until the end of the process either, but that's just my opinion.

I agree. There should be no funny business with markers. But as long as the markers aren't actually on the CDs where they could be read, there isn't much difference because the applicant says that he fails if he misses even one. It's not like getting 19 out of 20 where you have to do a full run then ask if it was a fair test. Because he is claiming to do 10 of 10, every choice is already a declartion of a fair test bcause he would have to raise an issue of non-protocol procedures prior to maiking a choice.

After he listens to each one in an open test, so he can get the feel of any differences, I would then determine in advance when each disc would be played, with a coin flip or something. I would do a set number of trials, rather than an open-ended series of switches until Mr. Anda decides to make an attempt.

The order of affected/non-affected CDs should be pre-determined by chance--like a coin flip. My understanding of the proposed protocol was that there is a set number of trials. There are 10 trials, and he must get all 10 right.

Also, I wonder about that "Walker Audio Vivid" thing. After a quick google search turned up some of the claims made about Audio Vivid, I think you could run the same tests for this stuff too...

Good point. But that's a whole other claim. He should be able to put whatever he wants on whatever CDs he wants because the test would be double blind and he should have no way of knowing what he is putting on what.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

And the odds by chance of getting 10 of 10 right are 1 in 1024, which should be enough for a preliminary.

Oh, and I think the guy is trying some trick. Call me a sceptic, but I think anyone that submits a cohert challenge application is trying to pull a fast one. But a proper protocol and testing procedure should eliminate that.

Oh, and I don't think it is probably really a paranormal claim. But I haven't yet been able to find out how they claim this thing works. But in this age of technology, I applaud JREF for taking on the (possibly) non-paranormal "techno wizzo" charlatans that have, to some degree, replaced the "snake oil" of old, whom I would place in the sme category of astrologers, psychics, faith healers, and so forth.

 

[Gr8wight]

I think the guy is trying some trick. Call me a sceptic, but I think anyone that submits a cohert challenge application is trying to pull a fast one. But a proper protocol and testing procedure should eliminate that.

I've had some experience with audiophiles in a previous job selling audio equipment. There is no doubt in my mind that this gentleman truly believes he will be able to pass the test.

Oh, and I don't think it is probably really a paranormal claim. But I haven't yet been able to find out how they claim this thing works.

I agree that this does not fall into the paranormal category, but Randi has said before that he will extend the test to things he wants to. I think he is doing it for the sake of education about critical thinking.

 

[LTC8K6]

CD's usually have serial numbers on them. These could be used to keep track without marking the CD's at all.

 

[MRC_Hans]

*snip*
Oh, and I don't think it is probably really a paranormal claim. But I haven't yet been able to find out how they claim this thing works. But in this age of technology, I applaud JREF for taking on the (possibly) non-paranormal "techno wizzo" charlatans that have, to some degree, replaced the "snake oil" of old, whom I would place in the sme category of astrologers, psychics, faith healers, and so forth.

The digital signal pattern is permanently printed on a CD, so it requires paranormal activity to change it. Especially since this device is simply supposed to be placed on top of the CD player.

It is like claiming you can change the print in a book by placing a device on top of the shelf.

So, it is certainly a paranormal claim.

Hans