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Mental illness and 9/11

Joined
Jun 20, 2008
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Some Scottish guy posted an awesome thread over at the ATS loony bin. He is promoting the banning of those with admitted mental illness, since it is being arged that places like that only re-inforce their delusional thinking.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread595425/pg1

Some not so shockers: 3 moderators have a diagnosed mental illness - hear voices, schrizophrenia.



And a right on the money post about twoofs and their mental illness on page 5:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread595425/pg5#pid9259507

"When it comes to the 9/11 conspiracy theories, I have to wonder if some of ATS's visitors are suffering from Post Traumatic Stress. Other words, our society and way of life changed so dramatically and uncontrollably, so many-many people created the ultimate of ultimate conspiracies. Why? Because it gives them some sort of control. Since an uncontrollable entity (Terrorists) were able to break into a secure society (US), people felt very insecure by the lack of control our country actually had. So, they created this elaborate conspiracy, which make them feel as if 'control' can be regained. What does not help with this issue is that we are actually loosing the war, so overall morality has hit this all time darkish low."


Looks like Gravy was right on the money about not engaging the obviously mentally ill....
 
There is much, MUCH, that has already been posted on this forum, about this topic, but I will say...

I have no doubt that the percentage of mentally ill that become "truthers" is much higher then those who become fascinated with global warming, starving in Darfur, or some other publicized issue.

THe suggestion that an all powerful, mean and evil NWO could have plotted it and carried out, feeds directly into their paranoia.

TAM:)
 
I was most interested in the point that the OP made about banning the admittedly mentally ill.

And then wondering if those that DON'T admit to it, like Chris7, Ace Baker, etc, should be ignored. Gravy had it right, I think, on this issue, when he refused to engage with those lunatics.

Others, like Redibis, BillSmith, are just trolls that are well aware of just how stupid their claims are. So they serve the purpose that JREF was started for: they provide the erroneous claims that can be debunked. There is nothing wrong with feeding an obvious troll when they serve as the source of the stupidity that can be debunked.

Just avoid the obviously mentally ill, is all I'm saying.....
 
I was most interested in the point that the OP made about banning the admittedly mentally ill.

And then wondering if those that DON'T admit to it, like Chris7, Ace Baker, etc, should be ignored. Gravy had it right, I think, on this issue, when he refused to engage with those lunatics.

Others, like Redibis, BillSmith, are just trolls that are well aware of just how stupid their claims are. So they serve the purpose that JREF was started for: they provide the erroneous claims that can be debunked. There is nothing wrong with feeding an obvious troll when they serve as the source of the stupidity that can be debunked.

Just avoid the obviously mentally ill, is all I'm saying.....

I agree, but it is hard to make a diagnosis of such without a proper history and exam, and a proper professional (like mine) opinion after all that. As well, in additionto mood disorders, schizophrenia, there are the personality disorders which are hard to dx, and harder to treat.

That said, i think if the diagnosis can be made, or is self admitted, then YES, avoiding interactions concerning provocative topics is probably best avoided.

TAM:)
 
I listened to a Fetzer/Judy Wood interview the other day. Judy was saying that she found it significant that the US Department of Defense had made some announcement on the weaponisation of space the day before she was to publish one of her "space beam" papers (or make a speech or something along those lines). I cannot decide whether this is an indication of her own inflated sense of self-importance or a sign of mental illness. I have listened to many of the Fetzer/Wood interviews (I find them fascinating) and she does come over as quite a timid amiable creature but overall I lean to the toward the view that she's an apple or two short of a picnic.

Compus
 
Interesting thread. I believe a lot of the hard core people that regularly still post on the subject are mentally ill. Jammonius the most extreme current example here. I believe CIT and Cap. Bob would also fit into various mental disorders as well.

On the other hand I believe metamars and RedIbis being more along the lines of addicted to "hidden knowledge".

Bill smith is along the common troll lines with zero useful information. One of very few I put in ignore.

Chris7 seems to be a combination. Borderline crazy with some trolling traits mixed in.
 
she does come over as quite a timid amiable creature but overall I lean to the toward the view that she's an apple or two short of a picnic.

I'm accustomed to jrefers flaunting their ignorance of art (after all, it's not science, so who cares?) but where does this proud ignorance of mental illness come from, when such an ill-informed, unresearched, bordering on the superstitious approach to physical illness would be laughed off the boards?

I use you only as an example, Compus, of something common here and elsewhere.
 
I'm accustomed to jrefers flaunting their ignorance of art (after all, it's not science, so who cares?) but where does this proud ignorance of mental illness come from, when such an ill-informed, unresearched, bordering on the superstitious approach to physical illness would be laughed off the boards?

I use you only as an example, Compus, of something common here and elsewhere.

I love art, all forms. I appreciate it, and i am a writer myself. I would love to see proof that the disregard or dislike for art is a systemic "jref" thing.

I have no ignorance of mental illness what so ever. On the contrary i am a clinician trained in the assessment, diagnosis, and management of mental and physical illnesses. If you see my comments above, you would realize that.

TAM:)
 
....where does this proud ignorance of mental illness come from, when such an ill-informed, unresearched, bordering on the superstitious approach to physical illness would be laughed off the boards?
I use you only as an example, Compus, of something common here and elsewhere.


Unlike TAM I am not a professional in the field of mental health but I am capable of forming an accurate judgement about someones thinking faculties/sanity. I'm also quite informed about and have done a fair amount of "research" of her, let's say, "unconventional" theories. Having listened to hours of her talking about her work. I feel quite confident that she is.....ummm.....bonkers.


Compus
 
Here's my take on the Truthers from my website "9/11 Truthers Exposed":

Psychology:

The psychology of a 9/11 Truther is that of a person who has limited reasoning skills, thought processes and concepts on reality. Their attitudes towards others with a different view or opinion is very prejudice and has many traits. Take the trait of rigidty, which means inability to adapt to a situation. When they are asked a set of questions or are asked to present evidence reguarding their theories and claims they will change the subject immediately. They adapt to ignore questioning while under pressure to provide evidence to prove their theories and claims. Truthers are very rigid, they are self-contained and have a narrow view of the world and a prevailing outlook on history. They see the world as their group (9/11 Truth Movement) sees it, being that they are "ethnocentric". Consequently Truthers hate the people that are hated by their immediate group, the 9/11 Truth Movement. Truthers have learned to rely upon the authorities and standards which regulate, among other things, the prejudice of the group. Truthers have to have the "standard" prejudices to be a "normal" member of the group. Meaning that if they do not do what the group is expected of them they will not be part of the group. In the years from September 11, 2001, not one single shred of phsyical evidence from a 9/11 Truther has turned up.

Truthers often claim to have "mountains of evidence", but won't show it to the general public for fear of being rediculed and humiliated for not having the evidence on hand while in a debate. They will sway away from the real facts and evidence and present their own perverted and twisted versions of events reguarding 9/11. The problem with Truthers is that they imagine everything in a fantasy realm. They will fabricate doctored videos and pictures to suit their motives, it's the only way they can get their false information out to the public. Only they see the fantasy and noone else. The 9/11 Truth Movement doesn't want to look for the truth, they want to cause chaos, riots and murder.

How can we get at this basic rigidity of personality of a 9/11 Truther and find a way to test it? Among the tests of rigidity is the following: Evidence that is shown to a Truther and is asked to show another piece of evidence to counter the evidence that has been submitted. The Truthers can't go in for "wild harbrained innovations", such as editted videos or photos that have been photoshopped from the internet or quotes from survivors, victims and eyewitnesses that are taken out of context.

Personality factors of 9/11 Truthers are also easily elicited by the interview, questionaire, and life-history, as in this self-analysis of an avowed Fascist:

Question: Are you easily irritated when people argue with you about 9/11?
Truthers Responce: Yes. The one thing I cannot stand in any form is opposition.

Question: Do you easily get upset when things go wrong in an arguement about 9/11?
Truthers Responce: Yes. When things go wrong I take it as a humiliating defeat.

Question: Is it hard to admit it when you know you are in the wrong about 9/11?
Truthers Responce: Yes. It's difficult for me to retreat one step.

Question: Are certain people so unreasonable that you hate them when you talk about 9/11 with them?
Truthers Responce: Yes. Anyone who opposes me I hate.

9/11 Truthers have a conflict, it may be hung up between two alternatives, presenting evidence or admit that they are wrong, and at least for the time being to lose both of those goals only to be rediculed or punished for their indecisions about the truth that there was not a conspiracy by the U.S. Government on September 11, 2001.

Paranoia Schizophrenia:

9/11 Truthers suffer from paranoia schizophrenia. It's a disease related to the thought process, basically the brain and mental compacity. Truthers suffer from this type of disease because they don't know the events that happened in the real world and that the events of 9/11 were too much for their minds to process the information. They choose to ignore what had happened on 9/11, they think they have seen something other than what reality is projecting. In short they're imagining things that others can't imagine. They also pretend to ignore the evidence presented to them and what they are shown. 9/11 Truthers are mentally disturbed, and maybe that's why they are suffering from paranoia schizophrenia. Truthers also suffer from narcisim, where their reality is warped, where they have a split personality. That's from being themselves one time then being another version of themselves the next. Either way, the Truthers suffer at their own expense and must seek professional psychiatric and psychological help.

9/11 Truthers are so paranoid that they claim that ordinary people who are researching 9/11 and prove them wrong are called: "Disinformants", "Paid Government Agents", "Fascists", "Racists", "Lackys", "Sheeps", "Liars", "Nazis", "NWO Shills", "Jews", "Freemasons", "Brainwashed", "Communists", "OTCers (Official Conspiracy Theorist)", "Murderers", "CIA Agents" or "Paid Shills". Even though ordinary people are just citizens, and nothing more, the Truthers insist that they are something else entirely. Anyone can research any part of history, they can look at the facts then look at the evidence. Many will find that evidence is key to any debate/arguement. However the Truthers will disreguard the real evidence and rely on imaginary evidence that doesn't support their claims or theories. How can anyone disreguard the real evidence and put in their own imaginary evidence in? Because the 9/11 Conspiracy Theories are just narrative and fairy stories and nothing more. Their stories contain no evidence and can't be taken seriously. But they can be taken as folk lore or urban legends.

All I can say is that I've studied the Truthers for many years.
 
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Personality factors of 9/11 Truthers are also easily elicited by the interview, questionaire, and life-history, as in this self-analysis of an avowed Fascist
That opens up another can of worms. Is everyone who belongs to a fringe/radical political movement mentally ill? I take issue with that.
If someone is repeatedly lied to and his/her socio-economic reality is conducive to such a lie being a satisfying explanation [perhaps self-exculpatory] for the state of things then the lie becomes as good as truth to that person. The irrational fear behind it becomes rational to them.
 
That opens up another can of worms. Is everyone who belongs to a fringe/radical political movement mentally ill? I take issue with that.
If someone is repeatedly lied to and his/her socio-economic reality is conducive to such a lie being a satisfying explanation [perhaps self-exculpatory] for the state of things then the lie becomes as good as truth to that person. The irrational fear behind it becomes rational to them.

So if the Truthers have alot of fear, that fear turns to anger, anger turns to hate & hate leads to their suffering. Then who really cares if they suffer at their own expense? I know I don't! Paranoia is their suffering, they just won't admit that they have a serious mental issue that they can't simply see because they're blinded by stupidity & ignorance.
 
Stupidity and ignorance aren't mental illnesses though. Neither are stubbornness, credulity or intellectual laziness.
I spent a couple of [miserable] months as a truther a few years back and what snapped me out of it was simply hearing more compelling arguments from the other side.
If someone doesn't seek out that contrary opinion or refuses to listen when it's offered, that doesn't make them mentally ill, does it?
 
Stupidity and ignorance aren't mental illnesses though. Neither are stubbornness, credulity or intellectual laziness.
I spent a couple of [miserable] months as a truther a few years back and what snapped me out of it was simply hearing more compelling arguments from the other side.
If someone doesn't seek out that contrary opinion or refuses to listen when it's offered, that doesn't make them mentally ill, does it?

If Truthers are questioning the sanity of the witnesses & experts who are backed by the evidence they provided & calling them a bunch of liars & such. I would say that they're mentally challenged in so many ways.
 
If Truthers are questioning the sanity of the witnesses & experts who are backed by the evidence they provided & calling them a bunch of liars & such. I would say that they're mentally challenged in so many ways.
If such claims originate from low-level truthers then I'm inclined to agree. But I think many of them are just conditioned to believe that because the more prominent ones like Alex Jones [the ones who cynically use the movement as a cash cow] are yelling in their ears that it's integral to "understanding the conspiracy" and whatnot.

Maybe I'm being pollyanna-ish about this, but I think most truthers can be reformed if they're exposed to the right facts and people.
 
I don't believe all - or even most - truthers are mentally ill as per the medical definition. I think that what we have here is herd-mentality coupled in an odd way with elitism. A truther needs to feel special - heck, everyone does - and he achieves this by imagining that he knows the truth about something that is hidden from the general public. This feeds a narcissistic trait and produces feelings of disdain for dissenters.

Enter the "movement". A bunch of people feeding each others' fantasies, with authority figures at the helm providing new "ideas" and you have the recipe for the truth movement, no real mental illness required.

Of course, there are a number of truthers - probably a few of the leaders even - that most likely could be or have been diagnosed as mentally ill. I'm fairly sure a number of our regulars fit into this category.
 
It's so easy to feign a mental illness - especially nowadays. Conspiracy Theory has become a lucrative industry and Alex Jones and Glenn Beck are living proof of that. I'm as sure that the truther movement is being led by a bunch of opportunists and snake oil salesmen as I've ever been sure of anything.
 
Severe paranoia is a common symptom of mental illness, as is spending every day lost in fantasies of men in black and black helicopters.

I've seen quite a few Truthers in person that exhibited signs of schizephrenia.
 
Ignorance is like bad breath

I have no ignorance of mental illness what so ever. On the contrary i am a clinician trained in the assessment, diagnosis, and management of mental and physical illnesses. If you see my comments above, you would realize that. TAM:)

Au contraire
Show me where, in your comments above, you challenged the assertion
that PTSD is a "mental illness " made in the OP.
And a right on the money post about twoofs and their mental illness on page 5:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/...pg5#pid9259507
"When it comes to the 9/11 conspiracy theories, I have to wonder if some of ATS's visitors are suffering from Post Traumatic Stress.

PTSD is a nervous affliction that is earned - NOT a "mental illness ".
Bic ?
 

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