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Matt Rouge on Why Skeptics will never accept the existence of psi

BillSkeptic

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On Michael Prescott's blog one of his friends Matt Rouge wrote a piece "Why Skeptics will never accept the existence of psi".

What I find interesting is that Skeptics will say that they have never experienced psi or anything paranormal in their entire lives, nor do they know anyone who has had such an experience. This is the furthest thing from my own world.

My guess is that, when most Skeptics imagine a psychic reading, they see a flaky if not creepy psychic sitting in a dimly lit den of fraud, receiving money with greedy fingers, then proceeding to cold- and hot-read the victim and pump him or her full of generalities, superfluities, and, of course, lies and false hope.

In contrast, I am a psychic with many psychic friends. I’ve given readings and gotten more than a few big hits. I’ve received readings and have witnessed more than a few big hits. To us, it’s nothing unusual, odd, or spooky. We trade psychic advice on virtually a daily basis, in fact. No special setting or mood is required; in fact, I give and receive most readings over Facebook these days. Further, I make no money off of psi at all (I give readings for free on a frequent basis, actually). About half of my psychic friends do charge for readings or other psi abilities, but they do a lot of pro bono as well, and absolutely no one is getting rich from these services. I can also observe that my psychic friends are extremely normal and down-to-earth, and none of them fits the stereotype of the New Age flake (OK, we mostly don’t fit that stereotype!). I can assert without equivocation that I have never heard a friend refer to doing anything psychic in a fraudulent or less than sincere way.

In short, psi works for us consistently and on certain occasions amazingly. What incentive would we have to make it a part of our lives if it didn’t? I’m not naïve: Skeptics could certainly cite a range of potential psychological and sociological causes for such experiences. Those outside of our world are free to observe and judge for themselves. But my point is that psi isn’t just about the extreme and the strange. It can be an ordinary and consistently present part of one’s life.

Further, as the comments on Michael’s recent and excellent posts on Leslie Flint demonstrate, we who believe don’t believe everything (pace the Skeptics who enjoy portraying as credulous idiots. Crazy, too.). Yet, on the whole, I find reports of exceptional individual cases of psi to jibe with my own experience, and I think they are strong evidence for psi.

In conclusion

Based on my reading of psi laboratory research and exceptional cases of psi, as well as my own experience, I am 100% certain that psi is real and materialism is completely disproved and an obsolete worldview. Skeptics, however, will never be convinced.

If I am correct, that puts the unstoppable force of the truth of psi against the immovable object of the Skeptics’ belief system. What will be the end result of such an interaction?

I am going to go with a prediction that I have heard elsewhere and found convincing: Individual people and society as a whole will be convinced of the existence of the paranormal once someone is using it to make money. I don’t mean for readings but in the form of a process, product, or service that consistently works and that people want. At that point, the Skeptics will be forced to move, since money talks, and you-know-what walks. My guess is that 100 years will not pass without this happening, and it will probably happen much sooner than that.

Michael Prescott apparently bans most skeptics from commenting on his blog. Anyone want to take a stab at refuting Matt Rouge's claims about skeptics?

http://michaelprescott.typepad.com/...s-will-never-accept-the-existence-of-psi.html

For those who do not know who Michael Prescott is, he is an author of crime fiction but also known for his credulous acceptance of paranormal and pseudoscience topics.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Michael_Prescott

Prescott believes in ectoplasm, demonic possession, "earthbound spirits" and reincarnation and has a history of defending fraudulent spiritualist mediums such as Eusapia Palladino.
 
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What was the claim exactly?

Was it just this bit?
"Based on my reading of psi laboratory research and exceptional cases of psi, as well as my own experience, I am 100% certain that psi is real and materialism is completely disproved and an obsolete worldview. Skeptics, however, will never be convinced.'

That's a claim about his own opinion and the likely reaction from skeptics. I agree with it.

As far as using psi to make a buck, isn't that how the stock market works already?
 
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My guess is that, when most Skeptics imagine a psychic reading, they see a flaky if not creepy psychic sitting in a dimly lit den of fraud, receiving money with greedy fingers, then proceeding to cold- and hot-read the victim and pump him or her full of generalities, superfluities, and, of course, lies and false hope.
I don't imagine a dimly lit den, but everything else, yeah, pretty much.
 
Well this statement is certainly not true.

What I find interesting is that Skeptics will say that they have never experienced psi or anything paranormal in their entire lives, nor do they know anyone who has had such an experience. This is the furthest thing from my own world.

Firstly what skeptics? No examples are given. The statement is not accurate. Notable skeptics such as Chris French, Ray Hyman and John G. Taylor started out as believers in the paranormal. Hyman for example when he was younger was a genuine believer in palmistry until he realised later through experience with clients what was really going on via cold reading.

Hyman, Ray. (1976–77). Cold Reading: How to Convince Strangers That You Know All about Them. Zetetic 1(2):18–37.
 
What was the claim exactly?

Was it just this bit?
"Based on my reading of psi laboratory research and exceptional cases of psi, as well as my own experience, I am 100% certain that psi is real and materialism is completely disproved and an obsolete worldview. Skeptics, however, will never be convinced.'

That's a claim about his own opinion and the likely reaction from skeptics. I agree with it.

As far as using psi to make a buck, isn't that how the stock market works already?

In the original piece he describes the discredited experiments of Daryl Bem, I am guessing this is the 'psi laboratory research' he is referring to. I will link to his piece. Sorry I had to get 15 posts until I could share links. I will update the OP.
 
The business about others in the "psi culture" rings true. It is strikingly familiar to how a sense of religious community arises - believers tend to talk differently with other believers, using other language and self-validating terms. There's a different "normal" on offer, a different baseline.

I am most familiar with the US Christian culture, where phrases like these are understood:

"A heart burden"
"Called to service"
"Sanctified in Christ"
"Take it to the Lord"
 
I agree I and most skeptics prefer the term PSIg ... indicating guage pressure, so as to take into account the ambient pre-existing air pressure.
 
Reproduce the phenomenon under controlled scientific conditions and I'd be helpless but to accept psi.

But these folks can't do that.
 
n short, psi works for us consistently and on certain occasions amazingly. What incentive would we have to make it a part of our lives if it didn’t? I’m not naïve: Skeptics could certainly cite a range of potential psychological and sociological causes for such experiences. Those outside of our world are free to observe and judge for themselves. But my point is that psi isn’t just about the extreme and the strange. It can be an ordinary and consistently present part of one’s life.

If it works consistently then there should be no problem proving it under controlled conditions.
 
Well this statement is certainly not true.
Indeed. Most sceptics have had experiences, and know people who have had experiences, which psi believers would attribute to psi. Sceptics just think they are wrong to do so, there being mundane explanations for all of them which are far more likely and plausible.
 
Indeed. Most sceptics have had experiences, and know people who have had experiences, which psi believers would attribute to psi. Sceptics just think they are wrong to do so, there being mundane explanations for all of them which are far more likely and plausible.

It boils down to some people are more perceptive than others, that's all it is.

A great example would be police sketch artists, there are a few who just seem to nail a face they've never seen just by asking the right questions from witnesses. Then there are the salespeople who can accurately guess your dress shirt size by looking at you. Finally there are those annoying people who can play a song after hearing it only once.

Some folks are just sharper than everyone else, but it's not paranormal.
 
There are so many things that, as a layman, I don't have a solid understanding of, have never done proper scientific testing for myself, and haven't read a great deal of research for. And I say that not as a naive idiot but as someone who has a passing interest in science and a decent level of education.

I have, for instance, almost no understanding of how anaesthesia works. Actually, I've spoken to medics about it and apparently it's not well understood at any level. Still, you're hard pressed to find anyone on here or elsewhere denying that anaesthesia works.

All I know is that a dentist stuck a needle and some liquid in my mouth and was then able to yank out a wisdom tooth with pliers and brute force without me feeling any pain. And that they can do that consistently. Yet, and this baffles me, it does, I've never heard a dentist say "Skeptics will never be convinced".

Edit: I'll go further. Dentists not only refuse to rely on "skeptics will never be convinced" but they also perform consistently and well enough to make a ton of money, have millions of people rely on them for help, build dental surgeries, dental hospitals even, fund research, sell products, teach new dentists to do the same and further the profession, and never have to say "Hey, some of my friends are dentists and they don't even make much out of it. Why would we lie?". They prefer to operate in the open and provide people access to all the required histories of data to validate themselves.
 
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He gets one thing right, I think:

I am going to go with a prediction that I have heard elsewhere and found convincing: Individual people and society as a whole will be convinced of the existence of the paranormal once someone is using it to make money. I don’t mean for readings but in the form of a process, product, or service that consistently works and that people want.

If the existence of something that some people call "the paranormal" is to be established, as with anything else, it needs to be testable, and one extremely effective way of testing things is to note that a product based on them actually, reproducibly, reliably works. I don't need to argue whether my vacuum cleaner picks up dirt, or speculate on how vacuum-cleaner skeptics have simply been unfortunate enough to live lives in which they've never personally witnessed the miracle of the vacuum cleaner; I don't need to argue that all my vacuum-cleaner-using friends can exchange anecdotes about how effective their vacuum cleaners are at cleaning their carpets, and how they're really, honestly not fraudulent or misleading; I simply turn the thing on and it picks up dirt, and nobody [1] expresses significant doubt about its existence as a concept. And so, in support of this moment of clarity (I'll gently gloss over Rouge's use of the word "when" in place of the more accurate "if and only if") and of the "There's an XKCD cartoon for every thread" principle, I'll add the following, XKCD 808:

the_economic_argument.png


Dave
 
For me, anyway, skepticism isn't a belief; it's an approach. It is completely wrongheaded to say that "skeptics" haven't experienced things that might be considered paranormal or psi. The thing is, I don't jump to a conclusion that it's paranormal. That door that just closed itself when no one else was in the house? Not a ghost; more likely, the A/C just kicked on and created enough pressure change to close the door.

I'll repeat what I said in another thread, which is along the same lines of what Dave Rogers said above: if there was a such thing as Psi powers that allowed you to get information about what people are thinking or feeling, why aren't all these psychics making a killing in poker rooms and casinos? If they can psychically read details about a person's past and future, surely they can glean enough to determine their opponents' poker cards or at least their general feelings about their cards. At blackjack, they could determine what the dealer's hidden card is. If they see the future, they could see what Roulette/Craps numbers were most likely to come up next -even if they could only be accurate 10% of the time it would be enough to totally destroy the house edge. I would expect that if psi were real, and there was this big Psychic Friends Network out there, casinos wouldn't be able to operate.

We already see it happen with people who are mathematically gifted and have found exploits; why wouldn't the Psychic Friends Network pull the same move?
 
If they can psychically read details about a person's past and future, surely they can glean enough to determine their opponents' poker cards or at least their general feelings about their cards. At blackjack, they could determine what the dealer's hidden card is. If they see the future, they could see what Roulette/Craps numbers were most likely to come up next -even if they could only be accurate 10% of the time it would be enough to totally destroy the house edge.

Exactly. It's been said that the economy of Monaco is founded on the principle of paying out 26:1 on odds of 27:1. That's how small an edge you need to get unimaginably rich.

Dave
 
For me, anyway, skepticism isn't a belief; it's an approach. It is completely wrongheaded to say that "skeptics" haven't experienced things that might be considered paranormal or psi. The thing is, I don't jump to a conclusion that it's paranormal. That door that just closed itself when no one else was in the house? Not a ghost; more likely, the A/C just kicked on and created enough pressure change to close the door.

I'll repeat what I said in another thread, which is along the same lines of what Dave Rogers said above: if there was a such thing as Psi powers that allowed you to get information about what people are thinking or feeling, why aren't all these psychics making a killing in poker rooms and casinos? If they can psychically read details about a person's past and future, surely they can glean enough to determine their opponents' poker cards or at least their general feelings about their cards. At blackjack, they could determine what the dealer's hidden card is. If they see the future, they could see what Roulette/Craps numbers were most likely to come up next -even if they could only be accurate 10% of the time it would be enough to totally destroy the house edge. I would expect that if psi were real, and there was this big Psychic Friends Network out there, casinos wouldn't be able to operate.

We already see it happen with people who are mathematically gifted and have found exploits; why wouldn't the Psychic Friends Network pull the same move?

Determining other players' "general feelings about their cards" is an important aspect of playing poker. However, poker players use things like facial expression and body language ("tells" in poker-speak) to try read whether a player is bluffing or really has a good hand.
 
For me, anyway, skepticism isn't a belief; it's an approach. It is completely wrongheaded to say that "skeptics" haven't experienced things that might be considered paranormal or psi. The thing is, I don't jump to a conclusion that it's paranormal. That door that just closed itself when no one else was in the house? Not a ghost; more likely, the A/C just kicked on and created enough pressure change to close the door.

I'll repeat what I said in another thread, which is along the same lines of what Dave Rogers said above: if there was a such thing as Psi powers that allowed you to get information about what people are thinking or feeling, why aren't all these psychics making a killing in poker rooms and casinos? If they can psychically read details about a person's past and future, surely they can glean enough to determine their opponents' poker cards or at least their general feelings about their cards. At blackjack, they could determine what the dealer's hidden card is. If they see the future, they could see what Roulette/Craps numbers were most likely to come up next -even if they could only be accurate 10% of the time it would be enough to totally destroy the house edge. I would expect that if psi were real, and there was this big Psychic Friends Network out there, casinos wouldn't be able to operate.

We already see it happen with people who are mathematically gifted and have found exploits; why wouldn't the Psychic Friends Network pull the same move?

Most psychic people are aware it is wrong to use psychic powers to gain wealth. There are spiritual laws as well as laws of physics. It is bad karma to abuse psychic powers for personal gain.

I have said, a number of times that the spirit world gave me a five number win
on the lottery in 1998 and they did it by telepathically guiding me to pick the numbers. But they only gave me five numbers not six, because to make me rich at someone else's expense would have been bad karma. They gave me only enough to buy a computer, which I could not afford at the time.

A female voice told me I had won, one hour before the draw. It has never spoken to me since. The spirit world are not allowed to directly interfere in human affairs in more than token ways. But I believe they are allowed to inspire people with telepathy that the person probably does not even realize is coming from outside themselves.

Skeptics look for proof of psychic powers, but do not take into account spiritual philosophy, which is that we incarnate to grow and evolve by free will, and trial and error. We are not meant to see through the veil to higher worlds until we have evolved enough to deal with it. If just anyone could access psychic powers they would use it for their own ends and we would be having psychic wars as well as physical ones.

The spirit world teaches that we reincarnate until achieving a state of grace, and the human race is far from that, so we will not be seeing proof of the existence of higher worlds any time soon.
 
Most psychic people are aware it is wrong to use psychic powers to gain wealth. There are spiritual laws as well as laws of physics. It is bad karma to abuse psychic powers for personal gain.
People are people. If psychic ability were real, there would be a proportional amount of folks willing to take the bad karma risk and use the power to acquire wealth. As xjx388 pointed out, that would pretty much **** casinos and the stock market as well. Your special pleading fails.
 

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