Marriage Debate

Hardenbergh

Graduate Poster
Hardenbergh
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Messages
1,073
I discovered an excellent website with articles about the institution of marriage and why marriage should remain the same--one man and one woman. There are some very good arguments and after reading some of them, some gay marriage advocates may be convinced that things may be better off left alone (maybe).

Maggie Gallagher is President of the Institute for Marriage and Policy and a co-author of The Case for Marriage.
Click to expand...

www.marriagedebate.com
 
Hardenbergh said:
I discovered an excellent website with articles about the institution of marriage and why marriage should remain the same--one man and one woman. There are some very good arguments and after reading some of them, some gay marriage advocates may be convinced that things may be better off left alone (maybe).

www.marriagedebate.com
Click to expand...

Where are the good arguments?
 
Hardenbergh said:
I discovered an excellent website with articles about the institution of marriage and why marriage should remain the same--one man and one woman. There are some very good arguments and after reading some of them, some gay marriage advocates may be convinced that things may be better off left alone (maybe).

www.marriagedebate.com
Click to expand...

I didn't see any arguments but I did see quite a bit of lies, fallacies and religious nonsense under the heading of "scientific reasons".

Pretty sick stuff.
 
Did you want to give us examples of any arguments or points that you actually thought were good, Hardenbergh?
 
It's pretty much all gibberish that could be swept away by the slightest gust of logic. It's all the usual nonsense. Gay marriage threatens religous liberties (How? It's not like they're mandatory. If gay marriage is against your religous beliefs, don't have one). It's too radical a change that society is not ready for and should be put off for the future (preferably after the entropy death of the universe). It will weaken existing marriages (because marriage is a flimsy thing that can be crushed by the mere wieght of the possibility of extention of the franchise). And so on and so forth.

Nothing there that we haven't heard before and torn to pieces with the chainsaw of logic...
 
I personally like the "we'd have to change X number of laws already on the books and that would mean a lot of work"!!!
I wonder if anti-abolitionists used that one?
 
Marriage should remain in the realms of the private institutions (as opposed to public/gov't institutions) as marriage is defined by those private institutions and recognized by them.

Public/gov't institions should deal with civil unions; being that civil unions are a type of contract between parties that is recognized by the gov't.
 
Hardenbergh said:
I discovered an excellent website with articles about the institution of marriage and why marriage should remain the same--one man and one woman. There are some very good arguments and after reading some of them, some gay marriage advocates may be convinced that things may be better off left alone (maybe).



www.marriagedebate.com
Click to expand...

That site has a lot of material on it can you point me to the "very good arguments" you think would make a "marriage for all adult citizens" advocate like me me change his mind?
 
thaiboxerken said:
Did you want to give us examples of any arguments or points that you actually thought were good, Hardenbergh?
Click to expand...

I thought the article, "Do Moms and Dads Matter?" was a very good article.

http://www.marriagedebate.com/pdf/Do_Moms_Dads_Matter.pdf

Here's another article that I also referred to in the "Must Gay Marriage Advocates Endorse Polygamy?" thread titled "(How) Will Gay Marriage Weaken Marriage as a Social Institution: A Reply to Andrew Koppelaman."

Pages 4-12, Marriage as a benefits package, raises some interesting points about some negative things that gay marriage advocates may not have considered.
Click to expand...

http://www.marriagedebate.com/pdf/UST_fall2004.pdf
 
Last edited:
Hardenbergh said:
I thought the article, "Do Moms and Dads Matter?" was a very good article.

http://www.marriagedebate.com/pdf/Do_Moms_Dads_Matter.pdf
Click to expand...

If the title is indicative I don't need to read it since "moms & dads" do not equal marriage, children do not equal marriage.

However I will go and take a look at it - but are there anymore that you believe may be good reasons why two adults shouldn't get married?

(ETA) Had a very quick read of the first couple of pages and as I thought it is not an argument for or against marriage between two adults but is about what may or may not be the best "unit" to raise children.
 
Last edited:
oh yeah....some great arguments.....

It is an undisputed biological fact that the vast majority of procreation still occurs as a result of sexual intercourse between a male and a female. In light of such fact, “[t]he State could reasonably decide that by encouraging opposite-sex couples to marry, thereby assuming legal and financial obligations, the children born from such relationships will have better opportunities to be nurtured and raised by two parents within long-term, committed relationships, which society has traditionally viewed as advantageous for children” (Standhardt v. Superior Court of Arizona at 287-288).”

well....if it's a biological fact then that's alright - 'cos it's science see - can't argue with that! The fact that it's followed by a non sequitur doesn't matter..... :D

edit..

It is an undisputed biological fact that the vast majority of procreation still occurs as a result of sexual intercourse between a male and a female.
I'm not sure of their exact usage of the term "procreate" but seeing as a large number of single celled organisms and most plants use asexual reproduction i'm not sure if its even an accurate statement....
if it's meant in the human sense....well of course it's only possible to procreate through sexual intercourse or artificial insemination and not through muff munching or back alley banditary......but i don't see what that's got to do with marriage....:D
are "marriage" and "having children" one and the same? I never realised....
 
Last edited:
Darat said:
That site has a lot of material on it can you point me to the "very good arguments" you think would make a "marriage for all adult citizens" advocate like me me change his mind?
Click to expand...
I'm wondering about those too. I read a few. The first one argues that if gay marriage is legal, churches may decide to stop helping people adopt for fear they may be forced to help gay people too. That really is a good reason... for getting rid of hateful churches.
 
Hardenbergh said:
Here's another article that I also referred to in the "Must Gay Marriage Advocates Endorse Polygamy?" thread titled "(How) Will Gay Marriage Weaken Marriage as a Social Institution: A Reply to Andrew Koppelaman."

Pages 4-12, Marriage as a benefits package, raises some interesting points about some negative things that gay marriage advocates may not have considered.
http://www.marriagedebate.com/pdf/UST_fall2004.pdf
Click to expand...

This was also taken apart in that thread. It’s simple, marriage comes with rights and responsibilities. If gays look at the costs of marriage and think they are not worth the benefits, they can decide not to get married, just like straight couples do now. The argument that these guys are trying protect gays from the problems of marriage is silly on its face. If marriage is so terrible, why do straight people marry?
 
Last edited:
Random said:
This was also taken apart in that thread. It’s simple, marriage comes with rights and responsibilities. If gays look at the costs of marriage and think they are not worth the benefits, they can decide not to get married, just like straight couples do now. The argument that these guys are trying protect gays from the problems of marriage is silly on its face. If marriage is so terrible, why do straight people marry?
Click to expand...

Who said anything about trying to protect gays from the problems of marriage? The point was that gay couples want the same benefits of heterosexual married couples and this article points out some of the things that might not necessarily be beneficial and examples are noted.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom