Roger Ramjets
Philosopher
Define 'genetically/biologically closer'.
Split Thread Maori Creationism in Science lessons
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dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
Or courses in folklore and mythlogy, but not science.
And I find the double standard at play here ridiculous. Exlcude the Genesis account from science courses, you have to exclude all other suprenatural accounts.
Genetically all humans have a common ancestry.
Biologically all (normal) human males have a penis and a prostrate.
Don't ask me to define "normal", you know full well what I mean.
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dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
I am not a Dawkins fan by any means....but he is right here. Sneaking a non science based "alternate way of knowing" creationist theory into a science class is no better then allowing "Intelligent Design" to be taught n a science class.No difference at all.
Give a single example of a bias against Maoris in health and other services.
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
And what the hell does bias have to with teaching mythology as science anyway?
If they wanted to teach Maori legends as part of a requred course in New Zealand culture, fine. Just do not teach them as science.
Roger Ramjets
Philosopher
There's no room for mythology in science, which why we aren't taught about what ignorant superstitious people in the past believed - people like Euclid and Aristotle and Galileo.
Science only deals in cold hard facts, not superstitious nonsense about everything living and non-living being connected by whakapapa, and the people of the land having a role in preserving the mauri, wāhi tapu and natural taonga in their area.
That's why we are taught the important stuff - like how energy is converted from one form to another, the chemistry of hydrocarbon distillation, the Carnot cycle, and that nice warm glow you get from burning fossil fuels.
Science isn't about being at one with Nature, it's about understanding how it works so we can exploit it until there's none left!
Roger Ramjets
Philosopher
One of my friends told me last week about how his boss's teenage son was having an operation to adjust certain parts of his anatomy. If all goes well he will be losing a 'son' and gaining a daughter. Seems genetics isn't always as cut and dried as we think...
Roger Ramjets
Philosopher
Experiences of Māori of Aotearoa New Zealand's public health system: a systematic review of two decades of published qualitative research
But hey, it can't be bias. They do it to some whites too!
Oh dear . . . how sad . . .
Do you seriously believe that a penis surgically operated on to kinda-sorta resemble a vagina magically turns a son in to a daughter? Can the "daughter" now get pregnant? Was the son’s prostate gland removed as well?
Genetics is as cut and dried as it is, a penis surgically modified to resemble a vagina is merely cut and incorrectly re-identified.
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Cry me a river of victim mentality tears. Not a single example of an actual bias against Maori given, merely feelings, beliefs and suspicions of bias.
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Just because Euclid and Aristotle and Galileo lived in more ignorant and superstitious times doesn’t mean they were totally ignorant and superstitious. We are taught the knowledge they scientifically discovered, despite them living in relatively ignorant and superstitious times.
Facts aren’t cold and hard to me. Why are you so emotionally against facts? Are you interested at all in what’s actually true?
superstitious nonsense indeed!
The same people that hunted Moa to extinction, destroyed large areas of forests with fire, enslaved, raped and ate other Maoris they conquered in frequent bloody battles, didn’t have a written language or mathematics, didn’t invent a wheel or bow and arrow. A Neolithic (new stone age) people that didn’t have metal tools. The reality of Maori Wonderfulness isn’t so wonderful when the facts are revealed. Is that why you hate facts so much? Are you sure you’re not Maori?
Take all your clothes off and walk naked to the nearest cave and live there without any science if that’s truly what you believe (don't light a fire, that's using science). You won’t of course because you would be as happy as anyone for that nice warm glow you get from burning fossil fuels if the alternative was dying of exposure.
And you aren’t about being at “one with nature” either (whatever that means), except as a naïve, virtue signaling ideology.
ETA – You speak of science as if it’s a person or some sentient agent, it isn’t either. Science isn’t scientists and scientists aren’t science. Science isn’t responsible for how scientists and others use scientific findings and discoveries.
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The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
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There won't be any, because you've hit the nail squarely on the head.
I was going to post a load of examples of the massive handouts there have been to Maori heath and education, none of which is making a dent in any of the problems, but instead I saw this story, which strikes at the real trouble with the idiotic idea that Maori need more of anything.
Every single act that aids Maori specifically concurrently stomps on the face of poor people, and that mostly means Pasifika.
(I also find it hilarious that the same Maori screeching demanding extra money for more of white man's medicine is also screeching about Maori "medicine" not being covered by handouts under the new legislation)
Graham2001
Graduate Poster
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Sad thing is they are, this is a preview of an NZ school textbook, the hosting website is that of a NZ educational publishing company.
The example page (124) is pure unadulterated creationism, just not Christian creationism.
https://scipad.co.nz/Digital previews/2022/BigIdeas1sciPAD/BigIdeas1.html#p=124
What you have posted doesn’t look like a science textbook. It looks more like an anthropology or comparative religion text. Can you elaborate.
angrysoba
Philosophile
Go to page 1. It is called SciPad. It is "The essential workbook for New Zealand science students"
Then look at the contents page.
Then flip through it.
It is a science textbook.
Fair enough. I only looked at the page the link opened at. Looking at it more fully, it’s appalling and the people responsible should be sacked.
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angrysoba
Philosophile
Not necessarily.
It is in a section called Life and the Taiao. Apparently Taiao is a Maori word for "the natural world" or "the environment".
The section is mostly dedicated to how humans interact with the world, beginning with how we decide if something is alive or not, Linaeus's binomial classification system, and then comparisons about "traditional" and "traiditonal Maori" ways of seeing the world, with the former putting humans at the top of a heirachy or outside the natural world, while "traditional Maori" viewpoints seeing humans as one part interacting within the natural world. It's more of a case of the intersection between facts and values.
That doesn't seem to be a problem to me. There are live ethical and philosophical questions that scientists ought to wrestle with, in my opinion, and introducing them this way is not objectionable to me.
Now, as with any textbook, it may suffer from a certain reductionism. Maybe some Maori disputed this viewpoint over the centuries.
Anyway, I don't particularly like the concept of "other ways of knowing", but if this is all that's meant by it, then it's not really an issue in my oh-so-humble opinion.
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
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It's just the start.
Maori are determined to turn NZ into a third world country.
I'm just saddened I won't be alive by the time they've achived their goal and belatedly realise the money well has run dry because they've destroyed it themselves.
They'll no doubt just blame the remaining paheka.