Magnets for pain - latest review

Asolepius

Graduate Poster
Joined
Jul 5, 2004
Messages
1,150
Here hot from the press is the latest evidence for magnet therapy for pain. You guessed it - nothing! At least, nothing worth taking seriously. You will remember the spat over magnets being made available on the NHS for leg ulcers. There was no evidence for that either, and the Office of Fair Trading stepped in. I suggest a few of us write to OFT about any claims we see for the analgesic effects of magnets.
 
I posted my "medical I-dunno" (vs medical miracle) on the philosophy board, but I had an MRI while in the midst of a migraine. (I don't recommend it...) Amazingly, after my interaction with giant magnets on my head, I needed a dose of morphine. So IF magnets worked, wouldn't the MRI have cured my headache? How do the magnet advocates explain this?
 
I remember seeing some people at the Ontario Mills Mall in Ontario, California one day, who had set up a "Magnet therapy" station. They were videotaping their supposed therapy session where they were using horseshoe magnets! One guy I talked to waxed poetic about the benefits of magnet therapy. I pointed out it was a bunch of nonsense. He stated that blood contains tiny amounts of iron that react to magnetic fields. I pointed out that Iron Sulfide contains 50% iron, but that does not make it magnetic. He told me I was not a candidate for magnet therapy because my disbelief would interfere with my therapy.


Months later I found out that they were filming a segment for Penn and Teller's "Bullsh*t".
 
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I remember seeing some people at the Ontario Mills Mall in Ontario, California one day, who had set up a "Magnet therapy" station. They were videotaping their supposed therapy session where they were using horseshoe magnets! One guy I talked to waxed poetic about the benefits of magnet therapy. I pointed out it was a bunch of nonsense. He stated that blood contains tiny amounts of iron that react to magnetic fields. I pointed out that Iron Sulfide contains 50% iron, but that does not make it magnetic. He told me I was not a candidate for magnet therapy because my disbelief would interfere with my therapy.


Months later I found out that they were filming a segment for Penn and Teller's "Bullsh*t".

So, I guess you did not get on the show? :(
 
I posted my "medical I-dunno" (vs medical miracle) on the philosophy board, but I had an MRI while in the midst of a migraine. (I don't recommend it...) Amazingly, after my interaction with giant magnets on my head, I needed a dose of morphine. So IF magnets worked, wouldn't the MRI have cured my headache? How do the magnet advocates explain this?


Maybe it was an aggravation.

Oh, hang on, that's homoeopathy, isn't it...
 
....and here's one for starters.


Followed that link of yours, check this challenge they have:
Coghill's Challenge: http://www.cogreslab.co.uk/cog_chall.asp

Roger Coghill said:
<snip> ...But my studies (inter alia) have shown that people sleeping in bedplaces where the ELF electric field is elevated above normal levels (say above 20 Volts per metre) there is serious ill health from chronic exposure (asthenias and leukaemias in adults, cot death in children).

Therefore
The £2000 ($3000) Coghill Challenge to power utility workers and the NRPB is:

Place any human infant of less than three months age to sleep each night for at least eight hours in an ELF electric field of 100 Volts per metre for thirty days. My studies predict that child will die, or become so seriously ill that the test will have to be called off
. The NRPB and the power utilities' investigation levels by contrast predict there will be no adverse effect.

Bolding is mine.

This guy supposedly believes that the outcome of this experiment/challenge could be the death of the child, yet he posts and encourages the challenge ANYWAYS!

At the end of the challenge notes:
... Entrants must agree that we will let visitors to our website know the results of this trial, with the outcome verified by the coroner or doctor attending the infant.

WTF is wrong with these people??!!

I think I am going to drop a nice little letter to the media in Pontypool, South Wales.
 
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Pulease, let's not start in on Coghill again. I'm not over the trauma of the last RC thread.

Anyway, magnets do so make you feel better.
At least they always bring a smile to my face.
Especially rare earth ones and old hard drive jobs in particular.
Hours of harmless amusement to be had with these babies.
 
Hi,
Just joined and I sell magnetic therapy products. Who threw that!!!!!!!
I too read the report by Fingold and Flamm as I mentioned in my intoduction as a new member, picking out a ridiculous statement by a company who probably copied from someone else who doesn't know what they are talking about is not proof of evidence that it doesn't work!
Most of the outlandish claims come from the US and any one new wanting to cash in on selling jewellery with magnets (I phrased that on purpose) would most likely copy someone else's phrases off the website or brochure.
F and F did this and hey presto they found a load of idiots who didn't know what they were talking about and this is the evidence they produced as "proof"!
For the sake of argument I will pick out a couple of points that F and F used as "proof".
1. Sellers claim that magnets help flush out toxins.
2. Magnets can increase blood flow.
3. Is there anything in the human body that is affected by magnetic fields, the answer appears to be no!

Firstly they accept that "moving magnetic fields can create electrical fields that can have some effect on living tissue" what if an atomic particle moves through a magnetic field at speed? the Hall Effect tells us that this will generate an electical field which in turn increases energy. The iron in blood is paramagnetic even if only slightly and if you place blood that is clustered together onto a powerful magnet they will separate and I have seen this done within 5 minutes.
The proton has a positive potential and the electron negative, in blood the iron atom has more electrons that protons which means they are meant to and will stay separated in ideal conditions the same as two like pole magnets. Put an electron and proton near each other and they will move closer together. The theory is that the increase energy created in red blood cells help IMPROVE (not increase 2.) the pick up of oxygen which in turn improves the delivery of oxygen into damaged cells. By improving blood flow into damaged cells and tissue help with the removal of carbon dioxide and toxins and waste (lympahtic system 1.) Basically this what we do when we first hurt ourselves-we rub it to generate heat and improved blood flow into the area. No one can deny that improving circulation is the key to good health (along with other good health practices) especially if there are no drugs involved and cheap!
And now the crunch 3! F and F write a lot about the effects of the MRI and it's non effect on this or that so tell me what then is the purpose of an MRI scan if nothing in the human body is effected by a magnetic field??????

In my humble opinion as long as the products are sold ethically, which is why I strongly believe that the industry should be regulated, and they can be returned for a refund if no benefit is felt (try this with your box of pills or creams at your local chemist) then I can see no harm.
The biggest problem is the misleading claims and again the US are more guilty of this and indeed F and F use two US companies as examples and more importantly the journal that sparked this "investigation" the British Medical Journal.
The BMJ published a report of a clinical trial where magnets were used to ease pain caused by Oesteoarthritis of the hip and knee. People did feel a benefit but the placebo could not be ruled out so the trial was flawed. The product used was a magnetic wrist strap with a magnet of certain power and dimensions. When the BMJ and newspaper journalists published these "amazing" results they both used the term "bracelet" and subsequently showed images of fashion jewellery magnetic bracelets and bangles. The magnets in these items are often so weak so as not to pick up even a paper clip which were not the same strength as used in the trial. So off the public go the local market, buy a pretty bangle or magnetic bracelet and hey presto two to thee weeks later no benefit!!!! suprise suprise and in come F and F and every other expert who pounced on these articles but didn't read it through. Wood and trees and blind leading the bling come to mind.
Back to the magnets used in the trial, the company then went on to change the design of the wrist strap used and put in a smaller weaker magnet and some of the agents still use the trial as a sales aid!!!
Enough said. I hope I have shown that even those who would judge are not without fault and they too can mislead. I rest my case----for now!
Ray

Forget the protons and electrons for now...

All I care about is whether or not you can prove that magnets increase oxygen uptake. Here is a draft experiment:

1) Measure the blood oxygen level of 30 people.

2) Divide them into 3 groups randomly.

3) Group 1 does nothing special.

4) Group 2 uses a demagnetized magnet as if it were a real magnet.

5) Group 3 uses a real magnet in a manner to your liking.

6) Measure the oxygen levels again.

If you are right, group 1 will show no change, group 2 will show no change or slight increase from the placebo effect, and group 3 will show the greatest increase.

All of this is done double blind of course.

Have you done anything like that or seen that in a peer reviewed journal?

Edit: Whoops Darat. Wanna move me to that other thread?
 
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This guy supposedly believes that the outcome of this experiment/challenge could be the death of the child, yet he posts and encourages the challenge ANYWAYS!

And thus, he knows very well that nobody is ever going to do the experiment, and his challenge is safe.
 

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