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Ed Madeleine McCann Mystery

truethat

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truethat
Joined
Sep 10, 2007
Messages
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It is pretty much impossible for me to do any research on this via the internet because of the large number of forums and topics and blogs devoted to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. So I thought I'd try here. I also searched here and only came up with one topic in the Psychic Thread so I'm sure I'm spelling her name wrong or something.

What I'd like to ask those of you who know this case well, is if it is possible that the whole "out for Tapas" routine and the routine of having friends pop over to the apartment door could have been a set up to have the child discovered missing.

I read in several places that their door was unlocked and left this way by the parents (in case of a fire.) I also know that several of their friends supposedly went to the door to "check on the kids" but none of the friends ever saw the children since they didn't open the door.

There's been two issues that have me fence sitting about the whole case. (I don't know too much fyi)

Guilty

Occam's razor, the simplest solution is probably the right solution. Also I find it hard to believe that a kidnapper broke in and found a set of frickin twins in the same room and opted for the 3 year old. The twins would definitely be worth more than the little girl on a black market, and would be less threatening of a choice to steal. If they got busted who could identify them?


Not Gulty

How did the parents escape with the bodyand hide it? I do think it's potentially possible but where? At this point everyone was looking after these parents and their whereabouts.


However it occured to me that the whole night could have been a ruse. In fact they may have killed the child the night before doing the exact same thing. They don't call the police, they freak out and try to figure out what to do. They abduct the daughter's body and take her off to the beach or some "holiday" Hid her right in plain sight. Anyone seeing dad walking around with a dead little girl draped on his shoulder would simply assume she was sleeping. And then got rid.

Came home and set up the whole kidnapping routine. I haven't heard anyone say anything like this so I'm curious.

Is is impossible? Was she seen alive that morning and later?

Feedback welcome:boxedin:


Hmmm I edited this and the title because I found a link that describes the girls day and she was seen at 530 that evening. I'm still trying to figure out if she was killed earlier and the Tapas routine was all a set up.

http://jailhouselawyersblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/madeleine-mccann-what-happened-to-her.html
 
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truethat said:
Occam's razor, the simplest solution is probably the right solution. Also I find it hard to believe that a kidnapper broke in and found a set of frickin twins in the same room and opted for the 3 year old. The twins would definitely be worth more than the little girl on a black market, and would be less threatening of a choice to steal. If they got busted who could identify them?
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Please show the existance of any such black market existing in spain.

Kids being kidnapped for various reasons is uncommon but it does happen. There is no reason to expect the kidnapper would then involve a third party.
 
geni said:
Please show the existance of any such black market existing in spain.

Kids being kidnapped for various reasons is uncommon but it does happen. There is no reason to expect the kidnapper would then involve a third party.
Click to expand...


So you want me to prove that something that goes to great lengths not to be discovered by the world police, doesn't exist. Here on a message board?

Okie dokie.


I guess I'm going by the premise that the parents put forward, that Madeleine is still alive. Although I can't really see how that would be possible since she's got such a distinct eye and they've plastered her face across the globe, seems to me if anyone did have her they'd kill her and hide the body.

If we agree that she wasn't kidnapped to be sold on the black market as the parents have somewhat suggested, the snatching would be a basic pedophile? Is that it?

So I'm curious how a pedophile would do something like that in a crowded hotel with security and people walking up to check on the door every few minutes or so. (According the McCanns) seems pretty risky of a place to do it.


Anyway I kind of agree with the article posted. I think she was accidentally over dosed by her mother and this was a set up to have "someone else" discover that she was missing to distance the parents.
 
truethat said:
I think she was accidentally over dosed by her mother and this was a set up to have "someone else" discover that she was missing to distance the parents.
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i think that is total rubbish. All you people who think the parents killed this child make me sick. You have absolutely no way of knowing.
 
Well Mr Haulk, the conclusion isn't exactly satisfying. Is it a conspiracy theory? I'm not sure.

Are we a cynical society? Yes, and that probably contributes to the attitude that when Kate and Gerry start doing the rounds on talk shows we think they're running low on money.

You may think that anyone who believes the McCanns had a hand in their daughters disappearence to be sick, but there are plenty of awful parents out there.
 
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BobHaulk said:
i think that is total rubbish. All you people who think the parents killed this child make me sick. You have absolutely no way of knowing.
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And the police investigators involved are also idiots of course. There is absolutely no evidence the parents were involved. This is right up there with 9/11 and JFK CTs.
 
BobHaulk said:
i think that is total rubbish. All you people who think the parents killed this child make me sick. You have absolutely no way of knowing.
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I would say that we do not know even if she was killed. However we do that the people most likely to harm a child, in the statistical sense, are the close family and friends. Treating the McCanns as suspects is the sensible thing to do until they can be ruled out.

And we can't discount that possibility just based on no charges being filed against the parents, that could just be because the police or prosecution (not sure how the Portuguese system handles arrest/charging/prosecution) have not arrested and charged them.

Saying that at the moment I have no reason to believe that they did harm their child.
 
There is also the case of Shannon Matthews.

I don't hold any firm view either way about the guilt of the McCann's, but simply dismissing the possibility that they were involved as 'sick' is to ignore some real evidence.
 
truethat said:
Occam's razor, the simplest solution is probably the right solution.
Click to expand...


(1) That is not Occam's razor; and (2) Occam' razor was not desiged to deal with unraveling criminal liability or human interactions where people might set out to intentionally deceive one another.
 
regardless of "she was taken" or "they killed her" the fact remains that but for their actions the child would be alive or with them.

Ignoring the fact that they may have killed her, three children were left unattended in a ****** apartment block while they all got bladdered.

To me that was enough to have the other two taken into care.
http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/world/39Madeleine-may-be-in-US39.6720739.jp
The parents of missing schoolgirl Madeleine McCann have welcomed new information that suggests their daughter may be in America.
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I bet they do, the "find Madeline fund" is probably short of cash
 
If she was kidnapped by a pedophile then it would make sense that she was chosen over the babies. But the idea that has been put forth by the parents (although I may be mistaken about that) is that she kidnapped and sold or taken elsewhere. As I said, I'm not buying that one because there were two babies in the apartment.

I would assume a kidnapper of the black market variety would come equipped with some sort of drug to knock out the kid. No one wants to risk a screaming child. So why not go for the babies? Easier to hide and to keep in plain sight. Babies are babies and look less distinctive than a small child.

Also it could be a combination of the two. Maybe a pedophile kidnapped Madeleine and drugged her. But the parents had already drugged her to sleep and the combination of the two drugs killed her. He didn't realize he had a dead kid until later and then simply got rid of the body.

In any case I do agree that the parents are very liable in her abduction.
 
I don't believe the Black Market for stolen children abducted from parents on holiday exists.

Actually I think I know what happened. I posted it elssewhere I'll paste it below.


There seem to be two camps. The one camp suggesting that the parents hid the body and killed her. This makes absolutely no sense to me because I can't see how someone on vacation would have the wherewithall to do this without the body being discovered pretty quickly or a witness coming forward to say they saw something.

I don't think the parents killed their daughter and hid the body.

However some of the facts in the case seem to put together a simple answer to what happened.

One is that they left the children alone in the hotel room.

I have three kids and that's pretty hard to even consider doing, unless the room was in plain sight. I can understand a parent leaving their child alone while they sit out on a patio and have drinks with friends. I would do the same thing. I've vacationed in Cyprus and the hotels are usually attened by lovely tourists from Europe. The room where you would sit and have drinks and fun was just around the corner from the hotel room. I can honestly say that if my son fell asleep I'd probably do exactly what they did. Just leave him to sleep popping around the corner ever 20 minutes or so to check on him.

It is conceivable that they wouldn't feel a danger. The last thing I would imagine would be that someone would take my child. People are on vacation. However, my child at the time I would feel comfortable doing this was about 5-7 years old.

I would not trust a child younger than this to stay asleep. So I can even picturing myself giving the child a benedryl to knock him out for the night. No harm done. A good sleep and relax for all. Especially if I had a group of friends with me who were popping back and forth as well. Dumb choice and bad parenting I'm sure. But I can see myself doing this.

However in this case there are some facts that have given me a pause.

The fact is that there were three children in the hotel room. Two babies and one little girl. A pedophile would be inclined to take the little girl. The babies would be black market gold, if there was such a thing, so i suggest that since the babies were not taken we can assume that there was no situation involving a black market. Then again babies are harder to care for, so perhaps that is a reason.

However following this train of thought we see a pedophile abducting a child. A pedophile abducting a small child in a hotel is not going to risk the screaming and crying of a child. It would of course draw attention. So it stands to reason that they would have brought some sort of drug or chloroform or something to "knock out the child" so that they could escape undetected.

Here is what I think may have happened. IF the child was already drugged for sleep, and the pedophile drugged the child further, the combination could have potentially killed her. The pedophile would not have realized this right away because the limp body would have seemed like the effects of the drug. He escapes with the child only to find she has passed away.

The guilt in this story is an accident on the part of the parents. They made a poor choice. But no worse than mine when I decided to give my child benedryl on the airplane to have him fall asleep for such a long trip. Playing around with medicating a child is something most parents wouldn't do. But it works. I can imagine that as doctors the parents would have felt confident in their careful dosage.

Unfortunately they didn't expect the child to be dosed again. It would explain some of the odd behaviors on the part of the parents. They know if they say they drugged the child they could lose their medical licenses. And it was not what caused the problem. It was the abductor who caused the problem. But they still feel guilty.

I am curious what people think of this or if it has been mentioned elsewhere.
 
I can honestly say that if my son fell asleep I'd probably do exactly what they did. Just leave him to sleep popping around the corner ever 20 minutes or so to check on him.
Click to expand...

So I can even picturing myself giving the child a benedryl to knock him out for the night. No harm done. A good sleep and relax for all. Especially if I had a group of friends with me who were popping back and forth as well. Dumb choice and bad parenting I'm sure. But I can see myself doing this.
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Are you trying to get a rise out of people with those ludicrous comments?
 
jargon buster said:
Are you trying to get a rise out of people with those ludicrous comments?
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Absolutely not. I'm being honest. In fact if you ask a doctor about taking a kid on an airplane for a trans atalantic flight they will certainly recommend that you give the kid benedryl? You've never heard this before?

I'm being honest because I think other people are not being honest. I'm not talking about drugging a kid so you can do a Casey Anthony but rather kid is in for the night you sit by the pool. Especially when there are three little kids. One wakes up crying and they all do. I am saying for the puirposes of a restful night if I was a doctor and knew what I was doing I could really see myself thinking this would be not a big deal.

If you think otherwise I get it, I'm not saying this isn't a bad parenting choice. But rather I could understand them doing this.


And lest you think I'm crazy just google Benadryl flight kids. You will find lots of links about this. It's quite common.


http://pediatrics.about.com/od/weeklyquestion/a/06_fly_benadryl.htm
 
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