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Looking for documentation of the Randi "sex tape" sting.

Jontg

The Bear Skeptic
Joined
Oct 20, 2004
Messages
1,002
Currently debating one of those Randi-as-Fundamentalist morons, and he's trying to derail the discussion with the sex tape smear--like they all seem to do right out of the gate now that Mr. Randi is out of the closet. I need a link to the documentation that proves Mr. Randi's reasons for creating that tape.
 
Your "need" begs the question of whether or not such a recording exists.

Whose side are you on, anyway?
 
What's wonderful about skepticism is that it isn't a cult of personality. It really doesn't matter if Randi rapes puppies nightly. Both skepticism and the MDC still stand.

Does relativity fail if it turns out Einstein had a fetish for leather?

No. The truth is the truth, and personal attacks have nothing to do with it.
 
True... technically, I haven't even been shown the tape yet. But Randi himself admitted to making it, albeit for altruistic purposes and at the direction of law enforcement officials. If I don't see some concrete proof of this--above and beyond the simple fact that he hasn't been lynched and burned at the stake simultaneously--then my opponent will continue to derail and smear a man I greatly admire, and I admit I myself won't be able to shake some suspicions on my part. Again, it's a given that the tape exists--what I don't know is what it contains and where I can find proof that Mr. Randi's been set up.
 
Deny everything. Demand proof of everything from the person who you are debating with. If he cannot produce the tape it does not exist! If you are lucky he will only have second hand information and be unable to provide anything.

Who are you debating with? The professor?
 
Innocent until proven guilty... is good
Guilty until proven innocent... is bad

As rjh01 rightly says, you are in the position to demand proof.
 
There's no law or obligation forcing you to communicate with that type of person. You won't instill intelligence in anyone over the internet. As the saying goes: "Don't wrestle with pigs. You only get dirty and the pig enjoys it."

Tell the guy he must be wrong as he can't put up any evidence for any of his claims and say buh-bye. Move on to more deserving company. :cool:
 
Here's what I would say: put up or shut up. Being a skeptic means having an open mind (even if it means hearing something awful about someone you revere) but demanding evidence to back up claims. If you've got real evidence (not just hearsay and slander), let's see it. If not, you're making a very nasty, baseless claim about someone.

ETA: This might help?
http://www.randi.org/hotline/1996/0085.html
 
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Currently debating one of those Randi-as-Fundamentalist morons, and he's trying to derail the discussion with the sex tape smear--like they all seem to do right out of the gate now that Mr. Randi is out of the closet. I need a link to the documentation that proves Mr. Randi's reasons for creating that tape.

I'm pretty sure Randi wrote in some detail about this on randi.org so have a search on there. I found this SWIFT article that mentions it towards the bottom: http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/525-a-champion-grubbie-speaks-out.html
 
If what went on in this alledged tape wasn't illegal then who cares whether the tpae was made or not? If the alledged tape contained illegal activity Mr. randi would have been prosecuted. The tape if it exists is none of any ones business.
 
Look, my opponent doesn't need to prove the tape exists--Randi admits it does, and it would be disingenuous of me to demand my opponent prove what I am already fairly sure is true. What I need is proof that the tape was made for the Rumson PD. I know it wasn't illegal--my opponent has already played the fact that it wasn't at the time for all the sleaze he can conjure up--and I know it has no bearing on anybody's rightness or wrongness. Right now, I'm doing this for me, because I respect and idolize James Randi and I want to prove to myself beyond the slightest shadow of a doubt that the man I seek to emulate in all things was not soliciting teenage boys for sex. I mean, there has to be documentation, case files, court records of the tape being used to convict somebody, anything--right? Please, I'm not one of those just-looking-for-the-truth trolls, I genuinely am just looking for the truth, for the sake of my own peace of mind.
 
Look, my opponent doesn't need to prove the tape exists--Randi admits it does,

I'm not so sure of that. Randi "admits" that he recorded some harassing phone calls. That's not a sex tape.

Right now, I'm doing this for me, because I respect and idolize James Randi and I want to prove to myself beyond the slightest shadow of a doubt that the man I seek to emulate in all things was not soliciting teenage boys for sex.

Do you have any reason to suspect he was?
 
Yeah, it's really not healthy to try to emulate someone else in all things. Be your own person. It's fine to be inspired by someone else or to admire someone else, but don't try to be just like them. Hero-worship is unhealthy.
 

James Randi in the above-linked 1996 message said:
Just in case these mysterious "people" would like to be saved a trip,
I'll tell them now that the "tape" is not one of "solicitation," but
was prepared by me (and not as a wire-tap, as Mr. Curley has chosen to
believe) to trap some bad guys.
It worked, and the bad guys were
identified, charged, and convicted. I will bring along a COMPLETE
file of the newspaper files alluded to (not from Rumson, which had no
newspaper back then, but from Asbury Park) including the articles that
supported my allegations against the Middletown police, and the record
of the conviction of those who I trapped by means of the "tape."

[bolding mine]

What else do you need to know?
 
Look, my opponent doesn't need to prove the tape exists--Randi admits it does, and it would be disingenuous of me to demand my opponent prove what I am already fairly sure is true.
Can you provide a link to the alleged admission? It is not ingenuous to ask for proof of claim -- it is stupid not to.
What I need is proof that the tape was made for the Rumson PD.
What you need first if proof of the tape itself. Subpoena the Rumson PD for the alleged artifact.
I know it wasn't illegal--my opponent has already played the fact that it wasn't at the time for all the sleaze he can conjure up--and I know it has no bearing on anybody's rightness or wrongness.
So what's the point? If nothing's wrong, then why try to "fix" it?
Right now, I'm doing this for me, because I respect and idolize James Randi and I want to prove to myself beyond the slightest shadow of a doubt that the man I seek to emulate in all things was not soliciting teenage boys for sex.
First, you can not prove that something did not happen. May as well try to prove that G-d does not exist.

Second, the burden of proof is on the person making the positive claim. That person is your alleged opponent.

Third, if your alleged opponent was merely trying to make you doubt Mr. Randi, then he has already won the conflict.

Fourth, you are asking a bunch of website members to provide evidence that something did not happen -- why not contact Mr. Randi instead? I'm sure that his lawyers would especially love to hear from you regarding any attempt to defame Mr. Randi.
I mean, there has to be documentation, case files, court records of the tape being used to convict somebody, anything--right?[
Subpoena the Rumson police for the evidence. Of course, you'll first have to convince a judge that you have the need-to-know, and that might take some doing. For that you will need a good lawyer, rather than a bunch of website forum members, to do your dirty work for you.
Please, I'm not one of those just-looking-for-the-truth trolls, I genuinely am just looking for the truth, for the sake of my own peace of mind.
Evidence, please? Your story seems improbable, and full of holes.

I've been approached a few times by investigative reporters who claimed that they only wanted to "uncover the truth" about my company's operations in order to "defend" us against some nasty rumors that we had not heard of before. Previous to that, there was always someone who would want to do the same regarding operations inside whichever military base or on board whichever naval ship I happened to be assigned to at the time -- always claiming to be supportive in trying to suppress one or more previously unknown, yet nasty rumors form an anonymous source.

It turns out, without exception, that these people were fakes. They were looking for confirmation of something -- anything -- that they could report in a negative way reminiscent of the sleaziest kinds of tabloid journalism.

I strongly suggest that this smear campaign be brought fully to light. I further suggest that protecting the source of these rumors regarding an alleged sex-tape amounts to condoning their actions in smearing Mr. Randi's good name.

... something that I'm sure any professional "psychic" might do to divert attention away from his or her own scandalous behavior ... n'est-ce pas?
 

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