Liquipel: water resistant nano coating or tech woo?

nvidiot

Botanical Jedi
nvidiot
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Apr 30, 2010
Messages
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Noticed this on redmondpie, by way of TUAW:

Waterproofing treatment for phones

It reeks of woo, but they aren't making quite as bold a claim as it seems at first glance, and while I can think of ways to fake such a service and make money from it, I'd like to know if anyone here has heard of such coatings for electronics that would make them "water-resistant".

My woo senses are tingling, but I hesitate to call shenanigans without knowing more. Hopefully someone here at the JREF has some knowledge to share.
 
Is this like the stuff you can spray on your windshield to make the wipers almost irrelevant?
 
There's no reason it couldn't work. You can rain-proof your car windows (causing the rain to bead up and roll off instead of wetting the glass) with Rain-X and other similar products.

If the coating is thin enough to not interfere with touch screens, camera lenses, connectors, etc., then it won't seal gaps, but it doesn't need to; if it prevents the surface of the device from breaking the water's surface tension then water under negligible pressure won't flow into gaps.

My concern would be the durability of the coating, especially on rubbed parts such as key pads, touch screens, and connectors. (I once treated a pair of hiking shoes with a silicon water repellent, following all the directions including applying several coats with days of drying time between coats. They repelled and shed water like magic -- for about ten miles of hiking. Then they started acting like normal shoes again.)

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
Repelling water from a touchscreen is one thing, repelling and preventing shorts on a phone which is open via the headphone, dock connector and various buttons and plates is another. I've disassembled iPhones before, and I find it difficult to believe that you could use a coating that would prevent water from shorting out connections and still allow said electrical connections to work. Happy to be educated on the nature of such coatings and how they can do this though.

I can think of ways to fake it though. Using distilled water (or even some other clear non-conductive fluid) and a specially waterproofed phone for videos and then taking rubes money whilst still telling them that if their phone gets wet to do all the things you would normally do. Don't even have to actually do anything to the phone at all really. The emperor iPhones new clothes so to speak.

It's one thing to coat your boots, it's another to coat your iPhone externals and internals and still allow conduction. Again, more than happy to find this is not only possible but a reasonable claim.
 
It isn't faked, in fact it is what I do for a living. A slightly bigger company that does the same thing is P2i.
 
Not completely sure how much I can say really, I've signed lots of non-disclosure stuff.
Our product works by essentially lowering the surface energy of a product so that any water that hits the surface would rather cling to itself than the substrate, so it beads up and rolls off.
 
WD40?
I'm trying to picture protecting circuits from moisture, but still permitting electrical contact to be made.* Generally, the water is not so much the problem, but the impurities dissolved in the water cause electrochemistry to attack the contacts which are necessarily in close proximity to each other. The bridges of conductive impurities cause all sorts of unpredictable problems. I am very skeptical of this product. But that's just me, with about 30 years of fixing stuff. I need to be convinced.

ETA: This could be an elaborate hoax or an incredibly useful product. It's hard to tell from the videos. If I were promoting it, I would not use pristine bottled water. I would also show what happens after several hours after exposure to the dunking. It might be a good idea to have a control for this experiment, that is, show what happens to a non-protected phone.

*I am referring to the multi connector which brings in data and charging circuitry, not soldered connections.
 
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I think someone should buy a quart of rain-x and remove the battery from their OLD phone, press some buttons to discharge any remaining electricity, then submerge the phone in the rain-x. Jiggle it about so it gets in there good, then let it dry for a couple hours. Replace battery and power up. Pour water on it. Win.

I suspect, this is a rain-x type product.
 
Olowkow said:
WD40?
I'm trying to picture protecting circuits from moisture, but still permitting electrical contact to be made.* Generally, the water is not so much the problem, but the impurities dissolved in the water cause electrochemistry to attack the contacts which are necessarily in close proximity to each other. The bridges of conductive impurities cause all sorts of unpredictable problems. I am very skeptical of this product. But that's just me, with about 30 years of fixing stuff. I need to be convinced.

ETA: This could be an elaborate hoax or an incredibly useful product. It's hard to tell from the videos. If I were promoting it, I would not use pristine bottled water. I would also show what happens after several hours after exposure to the dunking. It might be a good idea to have a control for this experiment, that is, show what happens to a non-protected phone.

*I am referring to the multi connector which brings in data and charging circuitry, not soldered connections.
Click to expand...
Here is another company with a similar offering.

http://www.androidpit.com/en/androi...nology-Waterproofs-Phones-From-the-Inside-Out

And about the company in the OP - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...e-waterproofing-for-smartphones-launched.html
 
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I have been looking at quite a few sites that discuss Liquipel, and some say you can take your phone surfing, (saltwater!!?) or sit at the bottom of the pool with it, but then there is this:

http://gearburn.com/2012/01/liquipel/
Despite Liquipel’s prowess in protecting mobile phones, the device is not 100% waterproof, as stated on its website. “Just because your device has been further protected does not mean it can be used in this way. It is similar to buying a case for your device and asking to throw it at the ground.” The device cannot be “needlessly exposed to water”.
Click to expand...
Lots of wiggle room there. I must say, though, that I have yet to find anyone who calls this an out and out hoax. Apparently they put the phone in a pressure chamber with some sort of vapor deposition of something...???

I'm still skeptical where mating connectors are concerned, since they must rely on a frictional contact, and it seems to me that the coating would either insulate them or be eventually scraped away.

Again, if true, it's a wonderful development.

ETA: This video purports to show how the coating is applied. "technology found only on the surface of the sun" is used.;)
http://iphonesoft.fr/2012/01/09/rendez-votre-iphone-waterproof-sans-coque

They pull a vacuum on the phone first of course. I'm wondering how the electret microphone likes this. We need a chemist to evaluate this.
 
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