Limbaugh and Homeopathy

[SezMe]

Caught the Rushmeister on the car radio flogging a homeopathic cold remedy (he actually used the H-word in the ad). Sheesh.

The product is called Zicam. Here is the home page. If you go to Zicam Products -> Zicam Cold Remedy -> FAQ it says the active ingredient is Zincum Gluconicum (zinc/266 mcgs per dose)

If you go to Zicam Products -> Zicam Cold Remedy -> Cold Remedy Research you can read the following:

New research conducted by the Cleveland Clinic Foundation, one of the world's largest and most prestigious health centers, again confirms the efficacy of Zicam Cold Remedy. This clinical study demonstrated that Zicam reduced the severity and duration of common cold symptoms even when treatment is started as late as the second day after onset of illness. The study appeared in the January 2003 issue of QJM: An International Journal of Medicine.

This research is important because it demonstrates that Zicam can still reduce the duration of the common cold even when busy cold sufferers can't or don't start using Zicam within the first 24 hours of illness. Previous research studies all initiated treatment within the first 24 hours of symptoms.

There is also a link there to the "Full Study"

My understanding is that there is no such thing as a "Cold Remedy" and there is no product that will reduce the duration of a cold.

I would appreciate comments from those who can evaluate this material. Thanks.

 

[The Don]

Although homoeopathy just means "cures like with like", it has come to mean that the "like" should have been diluted to such an extent to potentise it that there isn't a single molecule of the active ingredient there.

Unless there are provings for Zincum Gluconicum (which there may) then it isn't a "remedy"

If there's some present (which there appears to be) then it isn't really homoeopathy.

eta....

Zinc Lozenges
Zinc gluconate, zinc gluconate with glycine (Cold-Eeze), and zinc acetate (Halls Zinc Defense) products are homeopathic medications used in lozenge formulations to treat cold symptoms. Zicam, an intranasal gel spray, was introduced in spring 1999 with “zincum gluconium 2x” as its active component.

Three separate meta-analysis studies have failed to clarify the role of zinc lozenges in treating cold symptoms.55-57 Each study concluded that half of the reports produced significant reductions in cold symptoms, while the other half demonstrated no effect. Reasons given for these discrepancies included lack of adequate placebo controls, use of complexing agents that prevented the release of free zinc ion, and inadequate doses of the elemental zinc administered to patients. The most recent study of zinc gluconate, a randomized, placebo-controlled study in children, did not produce any significant reduction in cold symptoms.58

From here http://secure.pharmacytimes.com/lessons/html/common_cold.htm

 

[Mojo]

Maybe Al Franken was right...

 

[Rolfe]

I couldn't find the links last time I looked, but there was some stuff in Quackwatch which related the story of how some guy who lost his sense of smell after using Zicam had successfully sued for damages.

The gist of the case was that Zicam is only "homoeopathic" by virtue of being labelled "2X" or something like that - that is, a 1 in 100 dilution. Of a known active substance. Which apparently was known to have this occasional side-effect of affecting the sense of smell. The argument was that the Zicam manufacturers knew of this, and there were no warnings, so they were liable. It looked as if they were only using the label "homoeopathic" to avoid having to pass any safety or efficacy tests.

"2X" is technically homoeopathic if the dilutions are shaken and the substance is homoeopathic in the sense of a proving having been carried out (as the Don pointed out), but it's still just a 1 in 100 solution of zinc gluconate.

Rolfe.

 

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Zicam is only "homoeopathic" by virtue of being labelled "2X" or something like that - that is, a 1 in 100 dilution...."2X" is technically homoeopathic if the dilutions are shaken and the substance is homoeopathic in the sense of a proving having been carried out (as the Don pointed out), but it's still just a 1 in 100 solution of zinc gluconate.

"Holy get-out clause, Batman!"


Someone should tell Pfizer, Merck, Glaxo SK...

 

[Mojo]

The gist of the case was that Zicam is only "homoeopathic" by virtue of being labelled "2X" or something like that - that is, a 1 in 100 dilution. Of a known active substance. Which apparently was known to have this occasional side-effect of affecting the sense of smell. The argument was that the Zicam manufacturers knew of this, and there were no warnings, so they were liable. It looked as if they were only using the label "homoeopathic" to avoid having to pass any safety or efficacy tests.

"2X" is technically homoeopathic if the dilutions are shaken and the substance is homoeopathic in the sense of a proving having been carried out (as the Don pointed out), but it's still just a 1 in 100 solution of zinc gluconate.

Rolfe.

Is Zicam on sale in this country? If the above is correct and it's only a 1 in 100 dilution, I don't think it would come under the MHRA's homeopathic registration scheme, so would presumably have to demonstrate efficacy to be licensed.

According to the MHRA publication Homeopathic Registration Scheme: Guidance for Manufacturers and Suppliers, one of the requirements for this is that

it must contain no more than one part per 10,000 of the mother tincture

See Section 3 (Products eligible for registration) of http://medicines.mhra.gov.uk/inforesources/publications/gn17.pdf

 

[Rolfe]

Is Zicam on sale in this country? If the above is correct and it's only a 1 in 100 dilution, I don't think it would come under the MHRA's homeopathic registration scheme, ....

All the information I saw about this was all from the USA. I've never seen the product on sale here - though I don't know if I'd notice since I don't do much casual browsing in the hypochondriacs' section of Boots!

It does appear that the MHRA does have the "2X" loophope plugged, but as far as I know that isn't so in the US.

Rolfe.

 

[Soapy Sam]

(snip) I don't know if I'd notice since I don't do much casual browsing in the hypochondriacs' section of Boots!
Rolfe.

Oh you really should. You don't know the fun you're missing.
Take a couple of heavy happy pills first though.

 

[SezMe]

Unless there are provings for Zincum Gluconicum (which there may) then it isn't a "remedy"

What is a "proving" as differentiated from a DBPC study?

 

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

What is a "proving" as differentiated from a DBPC study?

It is the "method" by which homeopaths claim to discover, i.e. invent, the effects that their remedies have.

To come at it slightly backwards; here is a link to a critique of their supposedly gold-standard modern prover;

http://www.internationalskeptics.co...5&highlight=provings+AND+sherr#post1870495815

Here are some choice examples;

Provings

It brings to mind the lyrics of Tom Hark. "The whole thing's daft, I don't know why, you have to laugh or else you cry"




p.s. In Googling on provings again I found this site linking to


http://www.homeoint.org/english/index.htm

"An unbelievable collection of homeopathic books online many of which have photos and illustrations."

Never was a truer word said.

Murthy like this this;

http://www.homeoint.org/articles/chandak/burns.htm

"Stop the burning process.


Cool the burned surface immediately for 20 minutes."

 

[SezMe]

Thanks, BSM, I'll use those links for some serious (?) reading tomorrow.

 

[cbish]

Limbaugh has been peddling alternative supplements since the beginning. IMO, he's pandering to his religious right constituency who seem to love that stuff. But, that may be another topic for another thread.

 

[gnome]

Limbaugh has been peddling alternative supplements since the beginning. IMO, he's pandering to his religious right constituency who seem to love that stuff. But, that may be another topic for another thread.

Much as I'd like it to be otherwise, interest in alternative medicine is certainly not exclusive to the Conservative/Republican side. In fact I'd bet on this matter it is the left that has the lion's share of dupes. Who has that quote, stupidity is bi-partisan?

 

[cbish]

I agree. The point I have (I don't want to hijack the thread) is a point I've made several times before. That is: I think there is a correllation between people who are into alternative supplements and spirituality. I find it to be a 'science doesn't know everything' type issue. People with a strong sense of spirituality come in all flavors. One flavor is the religious right who would make up a substantial percentage of Limbaugh's audience.