Life after Death (I hate this magazine)...

Mercutio

Penultimate Amazing
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Ode Magazine's cover story this month is of the man who "proves the existence of a soul". In his paper on near-death experiences... http://odemagazine.com/article.php?aID=4207 ...
When the The Lancet published his study of near-death experiences, Dutch cardiologist Pim van Lommel couldn’t have known it would make him into one of the world’s most-talked-about scientists. It seems everyone wants to know about the man who managed to get his study of this controversial topic published in one of the leading journals of medical research. Yet it’s not really surprising that its publication in 2001 created a stir. Never before had such a systematic study been conducted into the experiences of people who were declared dead and then came back to life. And never before have we seen such a clear illustration of how these people’s stories could affect our way of thinking about life and death.
The nice thing is, there is a place for readers to comment...and past experience suggests that they do not delete comments they do not agree with...
 
Ever read Passage by Connie Willis?

I suspect certain characters in it were based on this man.
 
"I became “detached” from the body and hovered within and around it. It was possible to see the surrounding bedroom and my body even though my eyes were closed. I was suddenly able to ‘think’ hundreds or thousands of times faster—and with greater clarity—than is humanly normal or possible. At this point I realized and accepted that I had died. It was time to move on."


Then why are all ghost like: My name is G... G... G... H... H... H...
and I have 2-3-4 children. I forgot everything that could prove my existence but I had a bad back and have a memory about horses. Maybe I liked them and maybe not...

"It was a feeling of total peace—completely without fear or pain, and didn’t involve any emotions at all."

Feeling of total peace without emotions.
 
"I saw a man who looked at me lovingly, but whom I did not know. At my mother’s deathbed, she confessed to me that I had been borne out of an extramarital relationship, my father being a Jewish man who had been deported and killed during the Second World War, and my mother showed me his picture. The unknown man that I had seen years before during my near-death experience turned out to be my biological father."

Now how about that. A mystery man and then a mystery father.
 
Ever read Passage by Connie Willis?

I suspect certain characters in it were based on this man.
I have not. Anything about this available online?

(Yes, I will be googling for it--my question is rhetorical, so that if such a thing is available, you can cite it here for any interested party....)

ETA: thanks for the lead...I would not have known to google it otherwise...
 
I googled for near-death experiences and got the same thing. Including this:

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/skeptic09.html

I'm just curious if the scientific community has any suggestions about near-death experiences other than "life after death". If they do, I'm it seems to be the last thing anyone's pointing to...
 
I googled for near-death experiences and got the same thing. Including this:

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/skeptic09.html

I'm just curious if the scientific community has any suggestions about near-death experiences other than "life after death". If they do, I'm it seems to be the last thing anyone's pointing to...

There's no answer? Have we a better option than to consider life after death based on this evidence?

In my opinion, if "life after death" has no better explanation than the one offered, then we're going to have to consider it valid, or very important to investigate. I thought this was the JREF forum, not the half-assed skeptics board...
 
HgTurrent, google for Susan Blackwood. She has looked at NDE's because of her own experience with OBE, if memory serves. Spent a great deal of time and effort investigating...and does not think it is life after death.
 
Lawl. Teh liquied metal man h4s teh scienz0r notationz0r.

In 1975, James Moody's ground-breaking book Life after Life collected the anecdotes of people who had come close to death and described the experience as comforting and transforming. Since then, the parapsychological, medical and scientific investigations of these near-death claims have become a small industry. This comprehensive report, by the author of The Adventures of a Parapsychologist and a fellow of the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal, collates theories about near-death experience, challenges the reality of spiritual claims and surveys historical and cross-cultural attitudes toward death. Blackmore concludes that the neurological "Dying Brain Hypothesis" better explains the evidence than the more paranormal "Afterlife Hypothesis." This work is chiefly of interest to medical professionals; the mysteries of death remain.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0879758708/102-5739613-3792130?v=glance&n=283155

The mysteries of death remain? The mysteries of death remain? Huh? I thought these book summaries were supposed to be objective...

EDIT:

YA-Well documented and well researched, this volume joins the growing number of titles about the near-death experience (NDE). Blakemore's stated purpose is "to explore what psychology, biology and medicine have to say about death and dying." She refers to the ground-breaking work of Raymond Moody, author of Life after Life (Bantam, 1988), and also examines the findings of many others who have studied the NDE. Numerous interviews with people who have almost died add interest to this study. The author's impartial treatment of diverse beliefs on the subject helps readers to see how scientific and spiritual points of view can coexist. There's much to think about here.

That last 'coexist' bit annoys me. Science and religion can coexist, no doubt. They are right now. What's to be debated, is if science SHOULD coexist with religion. Now I'm curious if Susan hypothesises if NDEs should be considered a compliment to religion. If she is, I think it's sheepishly fideist. Any impartial treatment of religion against science isn't playing fair. It's playing to the masses.

More EDITING:

From an independant viewer further down:
...she discusses how the NDE experience exists as a consequence of the breakdown of the sense of self, and the brain tries desperately to reconstitute a comprehensible model of reality. From this, she concludes that the very idea of a priviledged sense of self is nothing but a construct of the brain.

Now that's interesting, and a line of thought certainly worth pursuing.
 
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This is intresting.

But from what Van Lommel has seen, near-death experiences are not at all limited to members of the “spiritual” community. They are just as prevalent among people who were extremely skeptical about the topic beforehand.

Exactly what has happened to me.
Before I was skeptical and now I know.
About dying, It doesn't scare me anymore I wish I would have had a little more time there.
 
For my part, I've self-induced an OBE, or otherwise known in psychology as a psychotic break, as if one is watching onesself in a movie. Only once, not through drugs but self-scrutiny, it was an unpleasant experience, and I think I understand the phenomenon.

We don't see everything at once. We have, as part of our awareness, a mental picture of the immediate environment along with extremely short term memory. The first is an internal map of our surroundings to put sound in a direction and context, the latter is to establish a sequence of events in this environment.

The problem is all of this is otherwise served up indifferently; memories are tagged but not separated in how they are replayed. If a very short term memory gets tagged incorrectly as a long-term memory, it becomes deja-vu. Similarly, if a direct experience gets tagged as a related experience, one has the viewpoint outside one's body, the body image substituted for one's own perspective. In OBE and psychotic breaks, immediate experience is tagged as related experience, and one sees their own body, either on the table or going through other motions of life seemingly external to consciousness.

The first half of the Near-Death experience would seem to be similar, in that memory tagging breaks down before the player and the result is an artificial OBE, not a real one; one does not come back with any hidden information not in the mental picture of the immediate environment.

The second half, the tunnel, is the latter stages of brain shutdown, as first the retinas (total darkness) and then the optical cortex (sensation of light) are starved of oxygen.

The brain is apparently not a completely volatile memory system, as some people do have a memory of these experiences.
 
Do it on purpose and there is no tunnel.
You have to control the fear to get there.
When your out you will know you're out.
Smiple as that.
Naked on earth is one thing, naked in spirit is another
 
I'm just curious if the scientific community has any suggestions about near-death experiences other than "life after death".
Gee, like the fact that certain drugs which reduce the amount of oxygen going to the brain cause delusional hallucinations that are exactly like the ones reported by people having near-death experiences?
 
I think there has even been discovered a particular área of the brain that emulates the "feeling" of being flying (thoroughly activated during dreams), or was it a substance?.

To provide some evidence.. damn I would like to have at hand my copy of the book "Mapping the Mind" from Rita Carter.. to direct you to the specific research and medical journals about it.. but I think for now the reference to that book will be enough...

See ya
 
Gee, like the fact that certain drugs which reduce the amount of oxygen going to the brain cause delusional hallucinations that are exactly like the ones reported by people having near-death experiences?

I think you misread my post.

I was angry that nobody here decided to bring some skeptical knowledge to the thread. That this is a website founded to bring knowledge to hoaxy claims, and people were just letting the topic die without a fight, annoyed me.

Did you read my larger post below the one you quoted at all?
 
I'm just curious if the scientific community has any suggestions about near-death experiences other than "life after death". If they do, I'm it seems to be the last thing anyone's pointing to...
Yep. Dr. James Whinnery at the Mike Moroney Aeronautical Center looked into this. The Center is one of those places they train fighter pilots (in this case the US Navy's) to withstand high G forces by putting them through those centrifuge tests. As it turned, pilots suffering blackouts (due to blood being pushed out of the brain) experienced, well, "near-death experiences" in roughly similar numbers (approx. 18%) to the folks at death's door, even though the pilots were not actually (anywhere remotely) near death. Dr. Whinnery put himself through the centrifuge a couple of times, and found he was able to induce "near-death experiences" in himself pretty much at will.

So what we're seeing here, essentially, is a purely neurological function. Under certain circumstances which the brain interprets as impending death, the brain creates (in approx. 18% of us) comforting hallucinations to make death as little traumatic as possible. "NDEs" are real enough, but because they can occur in people who aren't actually dying, it's evident that their occurrence has nothing to do with the existence of an afterlife or a deity.

"NDEs" are, essentially, dreams. Dreams themselves are real, but the events depicted in them are not.
 
Yep. Dr. James Whinnery at the Mike Moroney Aeronautical Center looked into this. The Center is one of those places they train fighter pilots (in this case the US Navy's) to withstand high G forces by putting them through those centrifuge tests. As it turned, pilots suffering blackouts (due to blood being pushed out of the brain) experienced, well, "near-death experiences" in roughly similar numbers (approx. 18%) to the folks at death's door, even though the pilots were not actually (anywhere remotely) near death. Dr. Whinnery put himself through the centrifuge a couple of times, and found he was able to induce "near-death experiences" in himself pretty much at will.

Yeah, I saw this about a year ago. I bought the Bullsh!t season 1 DVD, and they had a part on this guy, and some videos of the tests.

But the statement, "the brain creates (in approx. 18% of us) comforting hallucinations to make death as little traumatic as possible," doesn't seem right to me. How would the brain have the intelligence to do it? Do we actually know the brain is trying to comfort us? It seems more like a freak, evolutionary effect. I think saying NDE's are the brains way of sheilding us from death is a little teleological.
 
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But the statement, "the brain creates (in approx. 18% of us) comforting hallucinations to make death as little traumatic as possible," doesn't seem right to me. How would the brain have the intelligence to do it? Do we actually know the brain is trying to comfort us? It seems more like a freak, evolutionary effect. I think saying NDE's are the brains way of sheilding us from death is a little teleological.

I'm inclined to agree--since anybody in the process of dying is unlikely to be reproducing in the future, there's no evolutionary pressure to make you happy on the way out. Now, if NDEs in some way led to a greater likelihood of not dying, that'd be one thing. I'm not entirely sure how one would test that, since it's presumably difficult to check on how many people with NDEs actually died at the time, but perhaps something could be worked out.

But otherwise, it seems thoroughly random--something not important to reproduction, and thus not selected for, but which doesn't snuff you before you pass on your genes, and thus not selected against. Otherwise we're basically assuming that our happy little hindbrain is going "Well, troops, we're on the way out, pleasure workin' with you all, let's give the 'ol boy a last happy vision so he doesn't thrash around too much." And that's more consciousness than I want to assign to my brain. (Now THERE'S a phrase I never expected to utter...)
 

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