Letter to Fred from Congressman Ellison

Ranb

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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/fred-lundgren/an-open-letter-to-congres_6_b_11325884.html

Fred Lundgren founder of KCAA radio received a letter from Congressman Ellison about some of Trumps antics.

Dear Fred,

I’m a Muslim. That’s why I’m asking you to take a stand. Demand Trump apologize to the Khans today.

I’m an American. I’m a Member of Congress and I am livid after seeing Donald Trump’s attack on the Gold Star Khan family.

How can he question a mother’s pain after her son is killed in combat? How can he imply her religion — not her grief — kept her from speaking to millions of Americans on national TV?

Fred replied back in part;
However, since you put the issue before me, I have a question for you and other practicing Muslims.

In your private life, do you elevate adherence to any aspect of your religious law (Sharia law) above any aspect of the American Constitution or constitutionally protected laws? ....

That part made me think of American Christians who put their religion above the laws of the USA. Kim Davis was the first to come to mind.

Fred finishes with;
This question is very simple. Can practicing Muslims who adhere to Sharia Law also be patriotic American citizen? For many non-Muslims, this question remains unanswered.
I suppose Fred doesn't know irony when it should appear between the lines he writes.

Ranb
 
Vegan dietary laws come to mind. Surely there is something in the Constitution about the freedom to devour tasty animals?

Well, there ought to be.

ETA: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" Seems like a patriot would know this already. Every aspect of religious law should be held above the Constitution - because the Constitution says so. The only way to make the Constitution outrank religion is to make religion outrank the Constitution.
 
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As a wise* man's t-shirt once said;

Meat is Murder!!!
(Tasty tasty murder).

Ranb


* luchog I believe.
 
Determining who "wins" when personal beliefs intersect with law can be a difficult and complex problem. For somebody in government my position is that the law should be written so that as many people as possible have autonomy to live how they want. I.E. You shouldn't write laws to force others to live their life how you choose to live.

I don't personally find it offensive that Trump implied that her religion and not her grief prevented her from speaking because based on my knowledge Muslim women are oppressed in this way.

Very astute observation that Christians in government have been imposing their way of life on others for a long time. This is one of the largest grievances I have against Conservatives.
 
Determining who "wins" when personal beliefs intersect with law can be a difficult and complex problem. For somebody in government my position is that the law should be written so that as many people as possible have autonomy to live how they want. I.E. You shouldn't write laws to force others to live their life how you choose to live.

Laws should generally be made to protect The People's Rights, or The People's Safety.

I don't personally find it offensive that Trump implied that her religion and not her grief prevented her from speaking because based on my knowledge Muslim women are oppressed in this way.

That's why it was offensive, he stereotyped her.

Very astute observation that Christians in government have been imposing their way of life on others for a long time. This is one of the largest grievances I have against Conservatives.

Me too, and I'd point out that Christ was against it too.
 
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We need to get all the Xians and Xian beliefs out of government so we can get slavery back.
 
...That's why it was offensive, he stereotyped her...
Everybody uses stereotypes to form an opinion about others. They are a necessary component that allow people to quickly perceive the world. There is debate whether Muslim women are suppressed. Obviously Trump believes that they are. He made an observation based on this opinion. I can't imagine he did this with any ill intent. He was attacked verbally, and he responded in kind. If you are upset about this, I can only conclude that it's because you are choosing/want to be offended. You and I both know that if you are able to spend time with somebody and "get to know them" it's amazing how often these stereotypes are wrong.
 
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Everybody uses stereotypes to form an opinion about others. They are a necessary component that allow people to quickly perceive the world. There is debate whether Muslim women are suppressed. Obviously Trump believes that they are. He made an observation based on this opinion. I can't imagine he did this with any ill intent. He was attacked verbally, and he responded in kind. If you are upset about this, I can only conclude that it's because you are choosing/want to be offended. You and I both know that if you are able to spend time with somebody and "get to know them" it's amazing how often these stereotypes are wrong.


Nope, on just about every level.

He had no good reason to conclude that she personally was silent because as a Muslim she is not allowed to speak, and not because like every person with empathy would suspect, that she gets too sad about the violent death of her son to speak about it on a stage. It takes abnormal amounts of courage and composure just to get on a stage like that for any reason, let alone that one. His conclusion was inherently foolish. His manner of expressing it was crass and self-destructive. Applying stereotypes to individuals is wrong in a case like this.

Think of it this way. Say, you're a white man. I see you eating in a bar. I tell everyone that you're not dancing because as a white man, you probably can't dance, rather than many more reasonable and more likely factors such as you eating at the time. Now, you might be inclined to say that the oppression of women by Islam is a legitimate issue, and it is, and that makes this analogy a poor one because white people not being able to dance is a false stereotype. Alright. Say at this bar, I conclude and proclaim that you didn't hit on any black women because you're a racist, being a white man. Racism is also a legitimate issue, so does it make it non-objectionable to accuse you of it, with no more evidence than you being white and existing? That is the entire rational for Trump's conclusion.

But you already know and believe this. You know you're lying when you say he had no ill intent. Now, I don't mean this just to offend and attack you and dismiss you as a liar, but because it follows from your own argument. You defend him concluding and publicly speculating based on a stereotype as him 'responding in kind' to an attack. Saying there was no ill-intent for his attack is wrong because it being an attack precludes this.

Your conclusion that one 'must want to be offended' when the very goal of his attack was to offend (this is intrinsic to the word attack!), is so unsupported, that you would be well advised to step back and re-evaluate your reasoning for things like unchecked bias.
 
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Everybody uses stereotypes to form an opinion about others. They are a necessary component that allow people to quickly perceive the world. There is debate whether Muslim women are suppressed. Obviously Trump believes that they are. He made an observation based on this opinion. I can't imagine he did this with any ill intent. He was attacked verbally, and he responded in kind. If you are upset about this, I can only conclude that it's because you are choosing/want to be offended. You and I both know that if you are able to spend time with somebody and "get to know them" it's amazing how often these stereotypes are wrong.

No, and they are not necessarily a component. If someone is a republicker I know just from that fact that they do not like or support a wide range of other people. If I know someone is Muslim or Christian or Pastafarian I cannot safely make that assumption without further information.
 

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