Let's Talk Indoctrination

Tony

Penultimate Amazing
Tony
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Mar 5, 2003
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What are some indoctrination techniques used by religions and cults? Does anyone here have any person experience with these techniques? What are the best ways to counter indoctrination techniques?
 
Tony said:
What are some indoctrination techniques used by religions and cults? Does anyone here have any person experience with these techniques? What are the best ways to counter indoctrination techniques?
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What are you planning to do?

I think you might find some useful information in this thread.
 
Tony said:
What are some indoctrination techniques used by religions and cults? Does anyone here have any person experience with these techniques? What are the best ways to counter indoctrination techniques?
Click to expand...

I can think of a few of the top of my head. These can apply to religion in general.

Repetitive, easy sayings. For example, my church had several call and response patterns where the preacher would say something, and the entire congregation knew the response to.

Repetitive, simple, hypnotic songs. Have you ever actually listened to most hymns? Couple this with the psycho-acoustics of low organ music. Read up on fear, anxiety, awe, and reverence, and how low frequency standing sound waves can lead to these emotions (easy to construct with a LFE, or organ, and a very large room).

Also, many cults reduce the propspective member's self-esteem nothing: they are worms, unworthy, and clearly deluded by this false world. Without God or the pastor, they are nothing. Usually guilt (over sin) is a strong motivating factor to continue to stay in.

Isolation from others is a big sign, usually by making the church and all the events be a everyday thing, and making attendance mandatory. They may also encourage sepaprating yourself from non-members.

Usually, and appeal to a higher truth than even the standard religious texts is used to motivate and solidify the group. Normally the higher truth is the charismatic leader, another big indication the organization might be a cult. Esecially because the more charismatic you are, the better you are inherently at manipulating people psychologically.

There are lots more.
 
And of course lets not forget the most effective and oft used method. Brainwashing during the formative years of childhood.
 
What scientific research has been done on the subject? Any good books written?
 
There are a number of techniques. "Love Bombing," staying with the subject night and day, reinforcing worth, love, family. Works with alienated people of whom there are a lot.

Sleep deprivation as long as it's not obvious. Midnight campfire sings, testimony etc. Up at dawn.

Disconection from friends and family, i.e. Jehovah's Witnesses.

A Google search will turn up anti-cult web sites with more.
 
Yeah I do.

Groups that aren't cults do not take advantage of you when you are emotionally messed up and try to make you a member. If you're having some 'life troubles', keep friends around you who make sense. Beware new religious groups who try to insert themselves into your life. People going through the deaths of loved ones, or similar medical or personal issues are 'low hanging fruit'. :(

People who aren't aren't in cults have a wide variety of subject matter on their bookshelves. I would think that by their nature, skeptical people make poor cult material but you never know...

One of the creepiest moments I've ever had was being in someone's house and suddenly noticing that in every room, on every bookshelf, were only books by their religious publishing house. Nothing else at all. Talk about a 'let me out of here' feeling.

Encountering this phrase (or anything close to it):
"Certainly there is truth in many places. But we only know for sure the truth for today because of what "_______________" said.

There is kind of a feeling afterward that you were stupid.
 
Tony said:
What are some indoctrination techniques used by religions and cults? Does anyone here have any person experience with these techniques? What are the best ways to counter indoctrination techniques?
Click to expand...

I really think people try to make this indoctrination stuff more sophisticated than it actually is. You brow beat people, make them hungry and uncomfortable and then you relieve their discomfort to some small degree so they feel a sense of indebtedness. You don't give them a chance to think and attempt to direct thier thinking in the direction you want it to go. You shame them for any sort of dissent. You prey on people who seem vulnerable and lost. and so on.
 
There is quite a bit of good social psychology on the subject. I have to run off to class right now, but I will try to collect some and post links. Lots of it is based on Festinger's "cognitive dissonance" theory. Somebody here also once recommended Cialdini's book "influence".
 
What are some indoctrination techniques used by religions and cults?
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You can start your own university where all the young adults can be corralled and kept an eye on during their "questioning years". Then in the middle of it, you can send them off on a two year mission where they spread the truth.

Remember, people don't believe what they hear. They believe what they say.;)
 
Re: Re: Let's Talk Indoctrination

billydkid said:
I really think people try to make this indoctrination stuff more sophisticated than it actually is.
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I agree, I think they often use the sales technique of "play the numbers." Basically if you ask enough people (meaning everyone you meet) you'll eventually get a sale. And if you're "selling" to gullible, desperate people you're not likely going to have a terribly hard time.
 
Re: Re: Let's Talk Indoctrination

Gestahl said:
Repetitive, easy sayings. For example, my church had several call and response patterns where the preacher would say something, and the entire congregation knew the response to.
Click to expand...
And don't forget about repetitive, easy sayings. Repetitive easy sayings are very useful.
 
Tony said:
What are some indoctrination techniques used by religions and cults? Does anyone here have any person experience with these techniques? What are the best ways to counter indoctrination techniques?
Click to expand...
The word "indoctrination" suggests that you are talking about "doctrine", which would seem to be a matter of what is believed to be true or false.

It might be helpful distinguish between the following: doctrines, attitudes, and practices.
 
Re: Re: Re: Let's Talk Indoctrination

SpaceFluffer said:
And don't forget about repetitive, easy sayings. Repetitive easy sayings are very useful.
Click to expand...

Monkeys are great!
Monkeys are great!
Monkeys are great!
Monkeys are great!
Monkeys are great!
Monkeys are great!
Monkeys are great!
Monkeys are great!
Monkeys are great!
Monkeys are great!
Monkeys are great!
Monkeys are great!
Monkeys are great!
Monkeys are great!
Monkeys are great!

Well, when can I expect your subscription check to Divine Monkey Ministries?
 
I was in a cult once. Boy, did that make me bitter for awhile, mostly because I never thought I was the type of person who could be scammed. I’ve always been on the lookout for religious cults, but it never occurred to me that business cults existed. Basically I was kept ‘in line’ through manipulation. Anytime I began to think that my manager or my company was asking too much of me (like working 7 days a week for months on end, wearing a pager and cell phone 24-7, being on call literally everyday, being required to call management several times per day, being asked to do ‘free work’ for the good of the ‘team’, etc…) I would get hit w/, “Well, you love your family, don’t you? And if you don’t do the kinds of things others won’t, you can’t have the kind of life you’ve dreamed of for those you love.”
Little statements like that drove me to work even harder, often for a pittance of money, thinking that if I could squeeze in a few more hours, if I could get just a little bit better, the levy would break and all that I’d ever dreamt of for my family would happen. I remember a specific incident where I had agreed to travel on a day when the interstates and highways were literally closed because of the worst ice storm in the state’s history. The state patrol warned people that if they got stranded, there would be no one out to pick them up. A trip that would have normally taken 30 minutes took me nearly 4 hours. The next day I was complaining to my manager that I’d made a bad judgment call, and should have stayed home, to which he responded, “That’s the kind of things winners do. And you want to be a winner for your family, don’t you?”
God, how do you answer that?
Isolation from people outside of the cult was very important to making it work. Anyone that wasn’t 100% in agreement w/ you was labeled as jealous, lazy, incapable of making a difference in the world. Hanging out with those kinds of people, even if they were your spouse, was met with derision, mockery, and humiliation tactics. Daily meetings for your dose of indoctrination was required. There was no such thing as calling in sick for work. Only the weak minded were sick. Since weakness was to be avoided at all costs, you didn’t take days off. I can recall one time that I had the flu and kept having to excuse myself from an appointment to go throw up, brush my teeth, put on fresh lipstick, and get back to it.
Religion played its part too. It wasn’t long before I discovered that unless you were ‘Christian’, you kept your mouth shut about your beliefs. Management would actually arrange church gatherings to feed your ‘spiritual self’. These were required events.
Group meetings also had ‘question/answer’ type atmospheres. If you didn’t answer the speaker aloud, you were singled out for not being a team player and shunned by the rest of the team for your ‘stinkin’ thinkin’’ So it’s fair to say that peer pressure to conform was very high.
How did I break out?
I guess a couple of things happened that made me realize that all was not right. First, I could have made more money by working at Mickey D’s. Second, I was ‘promoted’ and learned that many of the things we told clients were outright lies. Hey, I may have been dumb to fall for it, but I still have morals. My marriage was on the rocks because I was gone so much, my relationships w/ the people I *really* cared about had fallen by the wayside. Plus I was watching my co-workers losing their lives, having their homes foreclosed on, having affairs with people from work, and I thought, “Is this really what success is? Cause if it is, f%ck it, I don’t need it.”
It literally took me years to recover. Counseling and the support of friends and family helped me heal. Being in a cult has made me more suspicious of people as a result. As soon as I meet a really cheerful person, I can’t help but wonder if it’s just a fake mask they’re wearing. I even got a tattoo as a sort of penance, or reminder or how to never live my life again. It says, be aware.
I’ve rambled on log enough. I guess my point is that you can overcome ‘cult member status’ but you gotta want it pretty damn hard and have an outside support structure to back you up.
A funny side note. On Monday I got a call from my former place of business. I knew the caller. They had picked my resume up off of Monster, I guess. I had been working with this individual for 2 years, and she didn’t even remember who I was. Too much fresh blood had come and gone since my time there I guess. It felt good, when she asked if I wanted to come in and explore the ‘opportunity’ that I could say, “Go to Hell,” and hang up. There was a time when that person could have asked me to jump off a bridge, and I probably would have done it.
 
The GM said:
I was in a cult once. Boy, did that make me bitter for awhile, mostly because I never thought I was the type of person who could be scammed. I’ve always been on the lookout for religious cults, but it never occurred to me that business cults existed. Basically I was kept ‘in line’ through manipulation. Anytime I began to think that my manager or my company was asking too much of me (like working 7 days a week for months on end, wearing a pager and cell phone 24-7, being on call literally everyday, being required to call management several times per day, being asked to do ‘free work’ for the good of the ‘team’, etc…) I would get hit w/, “Well, you love your family, don’t you? And if you don’t do the kinds of things others won’t, you can’t have the kind of life you’ve dreamed of for those you love.”
Little statements like that drove me to work even harder, often for a pittance of money, thinking that if I could squeeze in a few more hours, if I could get just a little bit better, the levy would break and all that I’d ever dreamt of for my family would happen. I remember a specific incident where I had agreed to travel on a day when the interstates and highways were literally closed because of the worst ice storm in the state’s history. The state patrol warned people that if they got stranded, there would be no one out to pick them up. A trip that would have normally taken 30 minutes took me nearly 4 hours. The next day I was complaining to my manager that I’d made a bad judgment call, and should have stayed home, to which he responded, “That’s the kind of things winners do. And you want to be a winner for your family, don’t you?”
God, how do you answer that?
Isolation from people outside of the cult was very important to making it work. Anyone that wasn’t 100% in agreement w/ you was labeled as jealous, lazy, incapable of making a difference in the world. Hanging out with those kinds of people, even if they were your spouse, was met with derision, mockery, and humiliation tactics. Daily meetings for your dose of indoctrination was required. There was no such thing as calling in sick for work. Only the weak minded were sick. Since weakness was to be avoided at all costs, you didn’t take days off. I can recall one time that I had the flu and kept having to excuse myself from an appointment to go throw up, brush my teeth, put on fresh lipstick, and get back to it.
Religion played its part too. It wasn’t long before I discovered that unless you were ‘Christian’, you kept your mouth shut about your beliefs. Management would actually arrange church gatherings to feed your ‘spiritual self’. These were required events.
Group meetings also had ‘question/answer’ type atmospheres. If you didn’t answer the speaker aloud, you were singled out for not being a team player and shunned by the rest of the team for your ‘stinkin’ thinkin’’ So it’s fair to say that peer pressure to conform was very high.
How did I break out?
I guess a couple of things happened that made me realize that all was not right. First, I could have made more money by working at Mickey D’s. Second, I was ‘promoted’ and learned that many of the things we told clients were outright lies. Hey, I may have been dumb to fall for it, but I still have morals. My marriage was on the rocks because I was gone so much, my relationships w/ the people I *really* cared about had fallen by the wayside. Plus I was watching my co-workers losing their lives, having their homes foreclosed on, having affairs with people from work, and I thought, “Is this really what success is? Cause if it is, f%ck it, I don’t need it.”
It literally took me years to recover. Counseling and the support of friends and family helped me heal. Being in a cult has made me more suspicious of people as a result. As soon as I meet a really cheerful person, I can’t help but wonder if it’s just a fake mask they’re wearing. I even got a tattoo as a sort of penance, or reminder or how to never live my life again. It says, be aware.
I’ve rambled on log enough. I guess my point is that you can overcome ‘cult member status’ but you gotta want it pretty damn hard and have an outside support structure to back you up.
A funny side note. On Monday I got a call from my former place of business. I knew the caller. They had picked my resume up off of Monster, I guess. I had been working with this individual for 2 years, and she didn’t even remember who I was. Too much fresh blood had come and gone since my time there I guess. It felt good, when she asked if I wanted to come in and explore the ‘opportunity’ that I could say, “Go to Hell,” and hang up. There was a time when that person could have asked me to jump off a bridge, and I probably would have done it.
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What kind of job was it? How did you meet these people?
 
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