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Let's hear it for good ol' Vatican U...

Charlie in Dayton

Rabid radioactive stargazer and JREF kid
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Aug 3, 2001
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"Vatican University Debuts Satanism Classes"

"...A major theme of the first day's course was how to differentiate between a person who is possessed and someone who is simply suffering psychological problems..."

"...Among the signs of possession by the devil, according to church teaching, are speaking in unknown tongues and demonstrating physical force beyond one's natural capacity...."

Is there no hope for the friendly local neighborhood body builder who speaks Ebonics?
 
Also covered here.

It's been discussed on the forum before, too. I can't figure out if the Church is seeking publicity or genuinely believes this mumbo jumbo. Maybe a little of both. Sentiment seems to be similar to this:
"Satanism is very much in fashion now," said Father Paulo Scarafoni, rector of the Regina Apostolorum, which is run by the conservative Legionaries of Christ.

Of course, this seems a deflection away from the veracity of demonic possession. After all, fung shui is also very much in fashion. Which is not testament to it's veracity.

Father Gabriele Nanni, an exorcist from Modena, told the students that doctors could be consulted to determine whether physical or psychological causes were behind a patient's distress. The symptoms of demonic possession, he said, include utter revulsion to holy symbols, such as a crucifix or baptismal oils. Sometimes, he said, the patient enters a deep trance.

Maybe I should get checked. That rumbling in my gut lately may be the demon settling in.

The article says this:
Many exorcists, sensitive to the sensationalist portrayal of their practice, especially in movies and pulp novels, hope to avoid publicity. That made the opportunity offered by the inaugural session, which was opened to the media, all the more unusual.

Sounds like they could have done a better job keeping the publicity down. If, of course, the really wanted to.

My sense is that exorcism draws a big faithful crowd, even if it's just a rumor of the event. Kinda like a statue that weeps, etc. The mysterious spooky world of demons is propagated, turning more folks to the Church. And the Church can take credit for steering mentally ill people to real treatment, while keeping quiet on the secrets of the demon world. There's no harm there, right?
 
Tell you what I think, for what it's worth... the church is faced with a basic dichotomy made even more complex by internal politics.

The dichotomy is the reconciliation of the real-world facts (in this case, about mental illness) coupled with the requirement to not violiate basic precepts of the religion. If the church ever took a public stance that challenged the existence of demons, they'd be challenging an article of faith as recorded in the new testament - Jesus's casting out of demons, giving power to his disciples over demons, etc.

Instead, they've decide to assume that "demons" exist, but very rarely possess people - and that the vast majority of people who think they're possessed are deluded or mentally ill. (Sounds like our applicants, no?) They can't simply say "There are no demons" or "Possession doesn't happen"... but they create hurdles about qualifications for demonic possession.

So, now to the politics of the matter.

Within the Catholic church priesthood and organizations, they have (like every other organization in the world) conservatives, liberals, progressives, fundamentalists, and so forth. The liberals and progressives pretty much defined the decisions at Vatican II, where things like making latin masses optional were decided, and formally exonerating the Jews for Christ's crucifixion was announced, etc. For some decades after that, the church was increasingly run by the liberal/progressive factions with the conservative/fundamentalists farmed out into the various parishes.

Over time, though, that's changed... and the conservatives and fundamentalists are slowly regaining their influence. As a result, several of the policies and "viewpoints" of the church - which are NOT part of the formal doctrine - are being affected. Possession appears to be one of those viewpoints, but it doesn't appear that there's any desire to return it to it's old format - instead, it appears that some elements are rebelling against "hiding it", and the church's position on the "frequency" of demonic possession.

There's a popular misconception that the RCC is a global empire of tightly controlled groups. The truth is that it's a global organization of semi-autonomous demenses, almost feudal in nature. Yes, there's some control over each diocese exercised by Rome through it's Archbishops, but when you get right down to it, the local dioceses' and parishs have an awful lot of independence.

Small wonder there's very little consistency with all this tug of war constantly going on... :)
 
jmercer said:
There's a popular misconception that the RCC is a global empire of tightly controlled groups. The truth is that it's a global organization of semi-autonomous demenses, almost feudal in nature. Yes, there's some control over each diocese exercised by Rome through it's Archbishops, but when you get right down to it, the local dioceses' and parishs have an awful lot of independence.

Small wonder there's very little consistency with all this tug of war constantly going on... :)

True, there's a fairly diverse spectrum under the umbrella of Catholicism. Reminds me of the notion of finding a confessor who won't chew you out for admitting to masturbating. The institution has room for the likes of Mother Angelica and Phil Donohue

Still, it would be kinda hard to say this course is being offered by some rogue conservative branch of the Church. Athenaeum Pontificum Regina Apostolorum, and this course in particular, appear to be very closely linked to the Vatican, physically and philosophically.
 
And for my next class, you will learn the difference between a type-A mojibulated rectal pudding demon and a type-B quazoogomatron (I'm speaking in tongues as I go), which determines why you are all very bad people and will go directly to Hell, especially if you prefer cakes to pies.
 
shecky said:
True, there's a fairly diverse spectrum under the umbrella of Catholicism. Reminds me of the notion of finding a confessor who won't chew you out for admitting to masturbating. The institution has room for the likes of Mother Angelica and Phil Donohue

Still, it would be kinda hard to say this course is being offered by some rogue conservative branch of the Church. Athenaeum Pontificum Regina Apostolorum, and this course in particular, appear to be very closely linked to the Vatican, physically and philosophically.

Mmm... "rogue" wasn't what I was trying to imply. More along the lines of "internal factions". :)
 

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