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LED light therapy, "but wait there's more!"

Rockin' Rick

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R
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Dec 14, 2005
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Well I've read through a few threads on the subject of LED light therapy.

Poked around on the web for some insight.

Ok, so it seems there is some success with a few medical uses, or at least there is reports of success. I read a lot of questions and comments about woo or not.
Mostly we've heard about it being used for pain which accept for the FDA there doesn't appear to be much faith in it.
And now, (since I work in TV) I just saw an infomercial for another LED product. Now LED light therapy is being used to reverse wrinkles. Yup, if you hold this LED thing to your face or hands it will "heal" your aged skin. regenalight.com
"the latest technological breakthrough in cosmetic SCIENCE"
It uses Red and Infrared LEDs. Light Relief the pain thingy used Red Blue and Infrared. So does light relief reverse wrinkles? Funny the light relief people didn't discover that if they use similar devices.
I'm no medical doctor but I know a few things about light and LEDs.

Claim: Light in the "Nasa" range of reds, they have a neat little chart on their infomercial showing reds through infra-red, has these healing properties.

My Response: Then why all the hoopla about the LED? The LED is very effecient and lasts virtually forever, but color LEDs produce a very narrow range light frequencies, so why not just use an ordinary red light?

If as they have found, Red and infra-red light reduces wrinkles, why not just go outside? Guess what, sunlight contains both red and infra-red. And since that is true, apparently if we filter out everything else we wouldn't develop wrinkles. Oh wait, thats the basis for most sun-screen and many wrinkle creams. Filter out the UV to prevent wrinkles. So does that mean that it isn't the Red light healing but the lack of UV that allows your skin to heal itself?

The NASA research they refer to is primarily regarding ultra-violet light, where it promotes cell growth in plants. NASA found that using several particular light frequencies spread accross the spectrum worked the very best...this would equate to hmmm, lemme think, sunlight.

Some of the science of light:
Light energy is quite interesting. The reason why things appear as different colors is because the matter that thing is made out of is reflecting that color. Blue paint on a car is reflecting the blue range of frequencies which is what we can see. At the same time that paint is absorbing the others. Ever lean on a black car out in the hot sun? Compare that to the white car. So, we know that light energy can penetrate into the surface of any material. That energy is typically insignificant in amount and does little than heat up and cause fading over time. It is ultra-violet that turns wood gray for example. So is light therapy possible? certainly. If I had to guess if any of these products accomplish anything, I'd go with no.

LEDs produce light in a small range of frequencies, a bandwidth of 50nm or so, with a concentration at one in particular. This makes them very effiecient for the power used. White LEDs aren't actually white, they are yellow, others blue, and the plastic is fluorescent. The LASER emits only a single frequency at a time, far more pure than even the best typical LED. LASERs are extremely efficient. LASER light if intense enough will not only heat up a surface such as that black car, but can actually heat it so much that it burns. And it doesn't take much, 40watts or so will make a nice LASER cutting torch.

I suspect that this new product is bunk. Based on a portion of real science, developed to separate you from your money. Lets all just stare back at our remote controls and keep pressing the buttons.
 
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The visible light spectra I would expect to be bunk. All IR radiation has been shown to do is provide a potentially alternate source for powering mitochondria; this is interesting, but only helps in wounds in which oxygen flow might be low and therefore mitochondria are poorly powered.

The visible light is there to show you it is working, and give you a pretty color to look at. The IR would have very little penetration below 1mm, so the most it could do is help with minor cuts and bruises.

Now, just so we all have somebody to boo and hiss: I found this fellow when checking up on my recall:

"Dr. Z"
"When Western Medicine Has Not Helped"
 
The only "light therapy" that I've ever found that has a shred of scientific support is using full-spectrum lights that emit a modicum of UV (there are LEDs available which do this, but not at sufficient intensity) to treat SAD.
 
And phototherapy for neonatal hyperbilirubinaemia - the light energy breaks some important aromatic bonds, causing the excess bilirubin to break down.

Rolfe.
 
this topic came up a bit ago and I did post the evidence then - you could do a search OR just do a google for plastic surgery LED therapy.
 
From the mentioned thread:

Barbrae said:
well, I don't know about its uses for pain relief (although since the applicator does heat up and heat does relief certian types of pain that could be argued it does help some pain - no more than a heating pad perhaps) but I do know that Doctors are now charging thousands of dollars for facial treat,ments with LED therapy - if light therapy is woo - the docs are making big bucks off of it.
http://www.topdocs.com/display_procedure.php?id=led
Click to expand...

The link only mentions Michigan, Maryland, and New Jersey. Doesn't sound terribly widespread. I may have missed something, but I didn't see much to suggest that these were evidence-based MDs, or that the practice was "all over the US."
 
I suspect I might be being a little too brief in some of my responses, today. I'm not all that confident that it's widespread among evidence-based dermatologists. I'd definitely like to see some convincing evidence that it works. If it doesn't, anyone selling it deserves the woo label, at least with respect to that topic.

Just a note for the future, Barbrae: I'm not fond of googling for other people's stuff. Usually, I can't find what people claim is out there.
 
Curiosity. I tried using 850nm and 940nm IR LEDs as light sources for digital camera work in the dark, but found the actual output too weak to be practicable.
However, I see CCTV cameras feature clusters of IR LEDs, so it must be workable. Anyone know anything about these?
 
I remember reading Barb's link at the time - I think there was only one. It sounded half-way woo, and certainly didn't give me the impression that doctors all over the US were "making big bucks" from the technique, let alone that it was legitimate or evidence-based.

Barb, this isn't H'pathy, where argument by blatant assertion (from the homoeopathic in-group) is routinely accepted. You need to be able to reference your claims.

Rolfe.
 
There's some sort of treatment going 'round for visible capilliaries on the face and other facial stuff. (Not very scientific am I?)

Something like IPL (intense pulse light) treatment. I did a quick google here: http://www.yestheyrefake.net/intense_pulsed_light.htm but didn't go as far as researching whether or not the AMA okayed it, but I vaguely recall reading somewhere they did.
 
Soapy Sam said:
Curiosity. I tried using 850nm and 940nm IR LEDs as light sources for digital camera work in the dark, but found the actual output too weak to be practicable.
However, I see CCTV cameras feature clusters of IR LEDs, so it must be workable. Anyone know anything about these?
Click to expand...
It may not be the output, but rather the fact that most current digital cameras incorporate IR filters.
 
Luchog- MRC_Hans also suggested this. In general, it's only the expensive cameras which have full IR filtering, compacts tend not to. Certainly my camera can get a visible image, for instance, from a TV remote control.
I agree that filtering is probably an issue though and it's one thing I'm looking at, thanks.
 
Soapy Sam said:
Curiosity. I tried using 850nm and 940nm IR LEDs as light sources for digital camera work in the dark, but found the actual output too weak to be practicable.
However, I see CCTV cameras feature clusters of IR LEDs, so it must be workable. Anyone know anything about these?
Click to expand...

A couple of things...
IR LEDs have specific beam widths that vary with LED model. A wider dispersion will light more evenly but at a shorter distance.
As luchog mentions, many cameras and/or their lenses may be filtering out IR light. Most color cameras will not work with IR light sources. Monochrome cameras however most often will. The CCTV and "security" style cameras you may notice are mostly B&W. B&W offers higher resolution at lower cost as well. 880 and 940nm LEDs will produce different results too, one appears more green and the other more blue on a color display. The typical remote control LED is 940nm and isn't particularly good for camera use. There are some high output LEDs designed for this and will perform much better. You may want to check with Vishay. Fairchild makes a good variety too but I don't think they have exactly what you're looking for.
 
Soapy Sam said:
Luchog- MRC_Hans also suggested this. In general, it's only the expensive cameras which have full IR filtering, compacts tend not to. Certainly my camera can get a visible image, for instance, from a TV remote control.
I agree that filtering is probably an issue though and it's one thing I'm looking at, thanks.
Click to expand...
Older compacts certainly don't; but some of the newer mid-range ones are starting to incorporate cheap filters -- usually just a lens coating that reduces IR transmission, though not as much as an IR-specific filter. Nowadays it's mostly just the low-end cameras that don't use one of those two.
 
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