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Kit Carson: Western Hero or Genocidalist?

shemp

a flimsy character...perfidious and despised
shemp
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The U.S., a wretched hive of scum and villainy.
For many years, Kit Carson was portrayed as a Hero of the Old West by most historians, as well as in the popular press. In recent years, his image has taken a beating, with some now considering him to be little more than an illiterate deranged genocidalist. I haven't read a lot about him, but after reading his Wikipedia page I tend more toward the latter, though of course I'm judging him by today's standards. Can anyone here point me toward a fair and balanced biography of the man?
 
Kit Carson, steaming pile of excrement, that's my conclusion anyhow. The PBS biography is short, and doesn't gloss over his war crimes.

Carson played a prominent and memorable role in the Civil War in New Mexico. He helped organize the New Mexico volunteer infantry, which saw action at Valverde in 1862. Most of his military actions, however, were directed against the Navajo Indians, many of whom had refused to be confined upon a distant reservation set up by the government. Beginning in 1863 Carson waged a brutal economic war against the Navajo, marching through the heart of their territory to destroy their crops, orchards and livestock. When Utes, Pueblos, Hopis and Zunis, who for centuries had been prey to Navajo raiders, took advantage of their traditional enemy's weakness by following the Americans onto the warpath, the Navajo were unable to defend themselves. In 1864 most surrendered to Carson, who forced nearly 8,000 Navajo men, women and children to take what came to be called the "Long Walk" of 300 miles from Arizona to Fort Sumner, New Mexico, where they remained in disease-ridden confinement until 1868.
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More on The Long Walk.
 
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The most I know of Kit Carson is that he's a character in the novel Death Comes for the Archbishop, by Willa Cather from 1928. He's a friend to the priest who is the title character. Cather makes mention of his less savory aspects, but treats him as a heroic character.
 
ImaginalDisc said:
Kit Carson, steaming pile of excrement, that's my conclusion anyhow. The PBS biography is short, and doesn't gloss over his war crimes.



More on The Long Walk.
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Interesting. Not to absolve him of responsibility for his actions, but it seems possible that Carson was (by the standards of his time and place) a somewhat decent man until he met John C. Fremont; after he became employed by Fremont, he seems to have become more aggressive in his dealings with Native Americans and Mexicans. My opinion of Fremont is that he was a bastard (both literally [he was born illegitimately] and figuratively). Two incidents from the above link are rather interesting, and make me wonder just what sort of influence Fremont was on him and what role Fremont had in shaping Carson's personality later in life:

Following a May 9, 1846, Modoc Indian attack on his expedition party, Frémont chose to attack a Klamath Indian fishing village named Dokdokwas, at the junction of the Williamson River and Klamath Lake, which took place May 10, 1846. The action completely destroyed the village, and involved the massacre of women and children. After the burning of the village, Carson was nearly killed by a Klamath warrior later that day: his gun misfired, and the warrior drew to fire a poison arrow; but Frémont, seeing Carson's predicament, trampled the warrior with his horse. Carson stated felt that he owed Frémont his life due to this incident.
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On the later date of June 28, 1846, Frémont intercepted three Mexican men crossing the San Francisco Bay and landing near San Quentin. Frémont provided Carson with indirect and ambiguous orders to execute these innocent three men in revenge for the deaths of the two Americans, which Carson promptly carried out. Carson at first asked Fremont if he should take the men prisoner. Frémont's plan was otherwise: "I have no use for prisoners, do your duty," was the response. When Carson hesitated Fremont yelled, "Mr. Carson, your duty," to which Carson then complied by murdering Jose R. Berreyesa and his newphews, Ramon and Fransciso De Haro, the nineteen year old twin sons of Francisco De Haro, the first Alcalde of San Francisco, near present-day San Rafael. The murder of these popular Californianos hindered Fremont's political career and prevented him from being the first American governor of California, a post he coveted. Writing about the murders a half-century later, the historian Robert A. Thompsen noted, "Californians cannot speak of it down to this day without intense feeling."
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In any case, as his life progressed he seems to have become more violent, until he reached the point where he participated in outright genocide. In today's world he'd be tried for crimes against humanity.
 
Kit's reputation has been taking a beating for several generations, off and on, but even at his most despicable he doesn’t seem as evil as some. Compared to Col Chivington or Liver-Eatin' Johnson, he wasn't so bad: often as not, he’d let people live. I think that even George Custer cut more hair.

Let’s remember how different the Old West was from our time. By that I mean, how much less bloodthirsty, ruthless, brutal, and absolute an era it was.

Genocide? Genocide is a term we throw around rather too much, even if we can be forgiven for our preoccupation with it. The sentiments that give rise to it were certainly present in the Old West, but incidents of actual sustained and purposeful annhilitation of an entire people are hard to find. In fact, I don’t know of any.

Indians and Indian-fighters alike lived in an atmosphere -- a world -- of chronic savage warfare. There was less difference between the two sides than I care for, but let’s remember this: Defeated whites simply could not surrender to Indians; defeated Indians could surrender even to a hard hombre like Kit and expect to survive.
 
I vote "western hero". Because he killed Indians, and Indians were the bad guys. Or at least they were when I was a kid. No body wanted to be the Indians. Always the cowboys. So we made my friend Drew's younger brother - Todd - the Indian. Otherwise we wouldn't let him play with us.
 
The Central Scrutinizer said:
I vote "western hero". Because he killed Indians, and Indians were the bad guys. Or at least they were when I was a kid. No body wanted to be the Indians. Always the cowboys. So we made my friend Drew's younger brother - Todd - the Indian. Otherwise we wouldn't let him play with us.
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The really, really sad part about that is that I knew several "Indian" children who also didn't want to be Indians. To think they'd have to wait for friggin Kevin Costner's only decent movie to see their people as heros.

In answer to Shemp's question; would you like a fair & balanced biography written from the Native American's side - don't hold your breath.

If you really want to find out about American heros, you might check out this HBO adaptation of Dee Brown's book: http://www.hbo.com/films/burymyheart/?ntrack_para1=leftnav_category4_show1
 
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I scanned this and restored it for work. Seemed relevant for some reason. He was an American hero when being an American hero meant being awesome at killing Indians. The stories exaggerated how awesome he was at killing Indians, not tried to white wash it.
kitcarsonthefightingtraib6.jpg
 
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I think that Shemp has it mostly right.

Even today the Navajos can have a dislike of Kit Carson and the Utes, but one of the local 'holy mountains' is proudly named 'Fremont', I'm sure after THE Fremont. Not only don't the good and bad guys wear white and black hats, the people on both sides seem to consist of rather fuzzy gray moral material.
 
Without delving into the specifics of Carson, I would strongly urge anyone interested in a subject like this to read the original source documents, and not recent interpretations. Thanks to the Internet, many of these documents are now available.
 
Mephisto said:
The really, really sad part about that is that I knew several "Indian" children who also didn't want to be Indians. To think they'd have to wait for friggin Kevin Costner's only decent movie to see their people as heros.
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I don't recall any Indians in No Way Out. Or did you mean Silverado?

;)
 
ZirconBlue said:
Sure you can. It just depends on who the particular people are.
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and what they did, and why they did it (I think pre-Vader did the right thing to avenge his mother - but should have been shotgunned like a mad dog later at the Jedi academy. The two are completely unrelated in any healthy mind (one of the reasons I'm not a giant fan of the second set of SW films).
 
Mephisto said:
Sure you can, what about Buffalo Bill, George Custer, Davy Crockett, Sam Houston, Jim Bowie, George Patton and Audie Murphy? ;)
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Samson, Joshua, David, Cuchulain, MacArthur, Sgt. York, Lawrence of Arabia,
Frances Marion?:)
 
Mephisto said:
Sure you can, what about Buffalo Bill, George Custer, Davy Crockett, Sam Houston, Jim Bowie, George Patton and Audie Murphy? ;)
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Case in point- they're no heros of mine. Colorful characters, yes, had interesting lives, yes, admirable qualities, yes, but they're no heros.
 
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