K-6 for both teacher and student

[Katachresis]

I had an idea the other day about an education plan for K-6th grade.

First off I should say that this is my first visit to the Education Forum, and I know almost nothing about education, and have no kids, but I thought I'd bring the idea to this spot and see what kind of reaction it gets.

It seems to me that when a teacher is hired, they might start out teaching Kindergarten. So that is maybe Sept. through May. After May, during the summer, they can prepare to teach First Grade. Then in September, they teach the First Grade. Then Second Grade the next year, and so on.

One benefit is that the student/teacher relationship is continued year after year. Although maybe not every child will get the same teacher every year, there is bound to be some overlap. It also allows the teacher to become better rounded, a better equipped teacher.

I would imagine it would be a challenge for a teacher, but not an overly burdensome one. I think many would even enjoy the change. It seems to me that the teacher would be better able to follow the progress of any given student better if they move through the system together.

I can see one problem might be that the student is only exposed to one teaching style. I'm sure there are other problems I haven't thought of.

Any ideas?

 

[roger]

One benefit is that the student/teacher relationship is continued year after year

But why is that a benefit? What problem are you trying to solve?

It seems you are perhaps addressing that here

t seems to me that the teacher would be better able to follow the progress of any given student better if they move through the system together.

but I can't say I ever perceived that to be a problem in my own education. A review of a transcript, some discussion with the previous teacher, and the normal interaction that occurs in the lunchroom, recess grounds, library, etc., and the teacher seems to have a good handle of the student on the first day of class.

I can think of plenty of problems, but they don't seem importnat to discuss if we don't have a clearly identified problem that this proposal is going to address.

 

[bjb]

This would be a very bad idea. A teacher needs time to learn how to teach their grade. The subjects and skills change from grade to grade, so a teacher who is good at teaching one grade is going to struggle to teach another. This happened when my son was in sixth grade and his teacher admitted she was having trouble figuring out how to teach the material. Following this plan, every teacher would have to learn how to teach a new grade every year. This would be very hard on the teachers and on the students.

In real life, there are better ways to organize a school. All of the grades need to be synched up so each grade learns what they need to know to be ready for the next higher grade, without gaps or overlap. This is called 'spiraling' and it is a relatively new concept. It requires all grades to be very organized, and all of the teachers have to be teaching the same material at the same time. My wife's school has been doing this for the last couple of years and while it is hard on the teachers and students, their test scores have gone up quite a bit.

 

[drkitten]

I had an idea the other day about an education plan for K-6th grade.

...

Any ideas?

Sounds like a solution in search of a problem to me as well. One thing that I can see being strongly negative about this plan is that it doesn't really give teachers a chance to develop a curriculum or teaching style with which they are comfortable -- this, of course, is the B-side of the "make teachers be more well-rounded" advantage you cite. Modern pedagogy has moved away from the "make the kids sit in straight rows while reading aloud from their books" model in favor of more interactive and project-oriented style of teaching, and most teachers will develop their favorite set of projects over a number of years. If you don't have the necessary number of years presenting the same material, it's hard to know what (proposed) projects will and will not work with your group of students.

Another disadvantage is exactly that students will be exposed to the same teacher for multiple years. This means they're likely to pick up on the teacher's biases (if she doesn't feel comfortable or happy with mathematics, they're likely to learn that, whether she wants them to or not) and possibly focus too much on her teaching style, with the effect that they may not be able to adapt to other teachers' styles once they hit middle school.

 

[kittynh]

hey! It's already being done. And it works pretty well.

I have to admit the school here that does it is the Waldorf school. Yeah, it's woo, but honestly, the school here is town is quite good. And the teachers follow you.

Where I teach it is lower el and upper el (grades 1-3 and grades 4-6). The teachers are fantastic. And the kids and teachers all have a very close relationship. Even with my daughter in college, her old lower el teachers (and upper el) ask about her and give her hugs when she stops by. There is a lot more teamwork with the parents also.

One problem with education is that once you find something that works, it often changes with a new teacher. In the book, "Random Family" which follows a poor Hispanic family over many years, the changing of teachers every school year meant failure for the children. When a program was set up, and a teacher won the trust of the children, things worked very well. It was the yearly change of teachers, and trust issues, that caused problems.

So on the poor end, a constant with a teacher would be wonderful.

On the rich end, the school where I teach is really darn expensive to attend, and the Waldorf school has even higher tuition.

Why do teachers change with each year? Because it has always been that way, and that's the way teachers are trained in colleges.

Our teaching model has not changed since the 1900's.

 

[kittynh]

oh and I should point out that team teaching is also a plus. Where I work all the classes are team taught. The school really tries for a balance. There are also lots of teaching assistants (I"m one). So the kids get to see more than one teacher each day.

The Waldorf school also has a team teacher system. That way if you do have a sub, you have at least one teacher that is known to the children.

There are lots of alternative education systems out there, doing a wonderful job. In fact, the school where I teach does not give out grades, but the kids get top priority in consideration for prep schools.

 

[Sami]

I'm curious as to what happens to "those" students. The ones who have a bad relationship with their teachers because they're unruly, uninterested, or they and the teacher just plain don't like eachother.

So imagine the teacher has a bad relationship with the kid who they have trouble controlling, motivating, etc. and they have to work with that student every single year. More importantly, can you imagine what effect that would have on the student in question?

Another thing, do the benefits outweigh the detriments? Having a new teacher every year is part of the social education we all go through- learning how to build relationships and work with new people is essential imo, and having a constant teacher(especially at that age) sends an unrealistic message to the kids.

To me this system sounds like it has more flaws than it's worth, though I can see it working in small private schools/rural communities

 

[roger]

Kitty, there is a big difference between a method that works for a specific school, which can hand pick teachers and students, and a large pool of preexisting teachers and students where you can't mix and match for an ideal outcome. Do you think the technique that works at Waldorf would work in your typical surburban or urban school, where there is presumably a wider range of teacher skills and student aptitude?

 

[Dogdoctor]

What about the students that get a poor teacher for 6 years? In addition there seems to be some teachers who can teach some kids who won't respond well to others. The more teachers they have the greater the chance of getting them paired up. I think we should leave it up to the private schools to do that kind of thing although in a small community it would be efficient. My parents may have had the same teachers for 6 years in a row and all the classes 1 to 6 in the same room at the same time.

 

[kittynh]

well, let's face it. There should be better ways to get rid of the crappy teacher. And right now in the public school sector there is no way to get rid of the poor or fair teacher.

The private school where I teach has children that are also stable in terms of not moving. I was told our area is unusual in that children tend to spend their whole educational time in one school. In other areas parents still move lot.

Class size is sucky in most public schools too. For children that have problems, they aren't getting help in any school sadly.