JWs and Katrina

[sackett]

The other day two Jehovah’s Witnesses came to my door. They were a neat elderly couple, very well dressed. The male of the pair did the talking. He started with, “I’m sure you know about all the terrible things from Katrina?”

I assumed that they were collecting for charity. “I gave to the Red Cross,” I said reluctantly but clearly.

But no: he was using the hurricane as a hook to hang his sermon on. “That’s nice, but do you think this is all? Do you think God is done with the world? Are these perhaps the last days –“ and he meant to keep going, but I held up both hands to stop him.

“I’m the most atheistic man you’ll ever meet,” I said. “So please. Thank you. No.” And I shut the door, pretty firmly.

There’s nothing the religioids won’t use.

 

[Taffer]

*sigh* It is sad, isn't it? How people can try to profit on so much misery and strife. The politicians are just as bad.

However, I would just say this to them: "I do not believe in your 'God'. You are being deceived. The only true god is his Holy Flying Noodle Monster! He does not have time to cause great big storms, as he's watching the game and having a cold one from his Beer Volcano. May he touch you with his Noodly appendage!" And shut the door on them.

 

[Anti_Hypeman]

Ammo http://quotes.watchtower.ca/

You can download scans of their previous end of the world predictions. Ask them how If they were wrong about the world ending in 1914 then how can you believe them now?

The recent bits (1995) about child molestation are very disturbing and you might want to shove that in their face to make sure they will never come back.

http://quotes.watchtower.ca/molestation.htm

some sickening highlights

"There must be two or three eyewitnesses, not just persons repeating what they have heard; no action can be taken if there is only one witness."

"If the accusation is denied, the elders should explain to the accuser that nothing more can be done"

"The question of his guilt or innocence can be safely left in Jehovah's hands"

The best way to make JW's run for the hills is to read their own literature to them.

 

[Fizzer]

"There must be two or three eyewitnesses, not just persons repeating what they have heard; no action can be taken if there is only one witness."

"If the accusation is denied, the elders should explain to the accuser that nothing more can be done"

"The question of his guilt or innocence can be safely left in Jehovah's hands"

The elders are not police or detectives. Their realm is congragational duties, not criminal or legal investigation, that's what the police are for and they are the ones that should be examining evidence, etc. (physical evidence trumps all else and serves as a witness itself so to speak. If it's just one person's word against another's, what can you do?

Here's the official policy:
http://www.jw-media.org/region/global/english/backgrounders/e_molestation.htm

A key paragraph regarding the one-person's-word-against-another's scenario:

However, even if the elders cannot take congregational action, they are expected to report the allegation to the branch office of Jehovah's Witnesses in their country, if local privacy laws permit. In addition to making a report to the branch office, the elders may be required by law to report even uncorroborated or unsubstantiated allegations to the authorities. If so, we expect the elders to comply. Additionally, the victim may wish to report the matter to the authorities, and it is his or her absolute right to do so.

Having it reported to the branch office ensures that they cannot "escape" the accusation by moving to another congregation.

And this does emphasize that the victom has the absolute right to go to the police regardless of congregational action.

-F

 

[Fizzer]

*sigh* It is sad, isn't it? How people can try to profit on so much misery and strife.

Trying to provide comfort and assurance to people going through troubling events (even if not directly affected) is trying to profit on misery and strife?

-F

 

[Taffer]

Trying to provide comfort and assurance to people going through troubling events (even if not directly affected) is trying to profit on misery and strife?

-F

They ar eno more "trying to provide comfort" then the politicians are trying to get elected by throwing blame.

 

[clarsct]

Trying to provide comfort and assurance to people going through troubling events (even if not directly affected) is trying to profit on misery and strife?

-F

Trying to twist a tragedy into a spin for your own organization?

This is providing "comfort"? Hell, our politicians must be the most compassionate people alive! No, my friend. When people try to bring that into a discussion in order to try to convince you that 'godidit', they are not providing comfort. They are using terror tactics to try to get you to believe what they do. They want you to FEAR their god.

I refuse. I might fear large bodies of water, but I will fear no being in this universe, be they god, man, or devil. Fortunately, only one of those choices exist.

Preying on people's fear is .........Huh...checked the whole thesarus...nothing is quite bad enough.

 

[Undodog]

“Im sure you know about all the terrible things from Katrina? … do you think this is all? Do you think God is done with the world? Are these perhaps the last days“ = “comfort and assurance“.
Yeah. Sure.

 

[Anti_Hypeman]

Fizzer you really would not do anything if a 5 yearl old claimed he was molested without eyewitnesses? You would leave it up to the victim to take it to the police, explain to him that nothing can be done, and leave it in jehovas hands?

I notice that you make no attempt to defend the predicted end of world dates. Just read the site they flip flop more than John Kerry. The proof is right there in print a century of flopping around like a fish out of water.

Just ask one of them how many people go to heaven and you will see that by their own belief system it is useless to join anyway. If you happen to be alive when the end comes and survive it then you might get to live on earth forever but NO HEAVEN FOR YOU!!!!

Thats why they have to push "the end times" so hard to push their faith. If we are not the "terminal generation" then there is absolutely no point in joining.

 

[Fizzer]

When people try to bring that into a discussion in order to try to convince you that 'godidit', they are not providing comfort. They are using terror tactics to try to get you to believe what they do. They want you to FEAR their god.

It is not the JW position that storms like Katrina or the tsunami last year are caused by God in order to "punish" people or for any other reason.

-F

 

[Fizzer]

“Im sure you know about all the terrible things from Katrina? … do you think this is all? Do you think God is done with the world? Are these perhaps the last days“ = “comfort and assurance“.
Yeah. Sure.

Believe it or not, MANY people fear the future or are at very least very uneasy about what is ahead. Biblical answers to those questions can provide comfort and assurance so that people are not going through life afraid of terrorist attacks, giant storms, car accidents, sickness, or even just death by natural causes at a ripe old age. Sure those things can and still do happen, but that doesn't mean we have to be in morbid fear of them.

-F

 

[Taffer]

So instead, they are going through life with the fear that, if they don't do exactly as their told, they'll burn in hell for all eternity? Wow, that's a lot better.

 

[Anti_Hypeman]

So instead, they are going through life with the fear that, if they don't do exactly as their told, they'll burn in hell for all eternity? Wow, that's a lot better.

They dont believe in hell but you are not going to heaven either so dont worry about it. Well a few people get to go but they were picked before birth. Unless you are luck enough to be part of the "terminal generaton" you are just out of luck.

 

[Fizzer]

Fizzer you really would not do anything if a 5 yearl old claimed he was molested without eyewitnesses? You would leave it up to the victim to take it to the police, explain to him that nothing can be done, and leave it in jehovas hands?

It's up to the parent to go to the police. If I was the parent, I would go to the police and the elders. There are two seperate aspects, a criminal one, and a congregational one. The criminal aspect is to be handled by the proper law enforcement authorities. The congregational aspects are handled by the elders.

I notice that you make no attempt to defend the predicted end of world dates. Just read the site they flip flop more than John Kerry. The proof is right there in print a century of flopping around like a fish out of water.

I'll be the first to admit that there were things said in the early days that would have been best left unsaid. However, the anti-JW crowd is quick to blow things out of proportion and try and infer things that were not actually said. The 1975 issue was a bit of a dicey situation, a lot of people got carried away, including those in a position of authority who then made statements that they should not have and were not in the position to do so. I've also seen claims that we've predicted 1984, "before 2000", and some date around 2030 (not sure of the exact year) but those are not at all true. Those are cases of anti-JW people reading things into our literature that are not there.

Just ask one of them how many people go to heaven and you will see that by their own belief system it is useless to join anyway. If you happen to be alive when the end comes and survive it then you might get to live on earth forever but NO HEAVEN FOR YOU!!!!

Thats why they have to push "the end times" so hard to push their faith. If we are not the "terminal generation" then there is absolutely no point in joining.

That statement shows a profound lack of understanding for our beliefs. There's no "extra" benefits for living in the end times than those who have already died. Don't base all your JW information on things said by those who want nothing more than to discredit JW's by any means.

-F

 

[Fizzer]

So instead, they are going through life with the fear that, if they don't do exactly as their told, they'll burn in hell for all eternity? Wow, that's a lot better.

No, JW's do not believe in an eternal torment of hellfire. It's either life or death. And the Bible says that the dead are conscious of nothing. So no threat of burning in hell.

-F

 

[Fizzer]

They dont believe in hell but you are not going to heaven either so dont worry about it. Well a few people get to go but they were picked before birth. Unless you are luck enough to be part of the "terminal generaton" you are just out of luck.

Like I said before, that's totally incorrect. Being part of the "terminal generation" as you put it is irrelevent. We expect people to be resurrected to life on earth going back as far as Abel.

-F

 

[Anti_Hypeman]

What do I have wrong specifically then. I have had JW visitors and from what I can gather I have no chance of going to heaven and there is no hell is that correct? If so whats the point in following all those rules?

Did things change how many people go to heaven and how is it decided now?

 

[Undodog]

Believe it or not, MANY people fear the future or are at very least very uneasy about what is ahead. Biblical answers to those questions can provide comfort and assurance so that people are not going through life afraid of terrorist attacks, giant storms, car accidents, sickness, or even just death by natural causes at a ripe old age. Sure those things can and still do happen, but that doesn't mean we have to be in morbid fear of them.

-F

I dunno, but I'm quite sure that Sacket isn't too worried about God's Apocalypse being just around the corner and neither am I for that matter.
But you still insist that someone knocking on my door and trying to convince me that I’m about to die at the hand of God is in any way comforting?
It's not - it's the opposite!
It’s an attempt to put morbid fear into me. Do you see how that works?
No?
Oh well..

 

[Undodog]

Well a few people get to go but they were picked before birth. Unless you are luck enough to be part of the "terminal generaton" you are just out of luck.

Is that true? The chosen ones are chosen before they're even born?
Oh Fizzer, tell me thats true - thats funny.

 

[Anti_Hypeman]

Is that true? The chosen ones are chosen before they're even born?
Oh Fizzer, tell me thats true - thats funny.

I know some of them are the JW leaders get a reserved seat. I dont know all the rules they change as often as the date for armageddon. I wish a JW would come back to my door its been a few years I am out of date.

The system was overhauled after membership surpassed 144,000. There was not room in heaven for all of the JW's anymore so earth 2 was invented for the 2nd class zombies.