Julian Assange: rapist or not?

[egslim]

With all the headlines about wikileaks, and a warrant out for mr Assange's arrest on suspicion of rape, I came across an article from the Daily Mail about the origin for these alegations. My intention for this thread is to focus on the question if mr Assange committed rape or not, based on the available information of what happened between the women and him.

Daily Mail
The article is from august.

The Mail on Sunday has managed to obtain copies of the women’s police statements, which are made available to the media in Sweden. Though heavily redacted, with details of the sex allegations blacked out, they make uncomfortable reading.
[...]
According to a police source: ‘They (Assange and 'Woman A', ed) had a discussion and decided it would be OK to share the living space, then went out together for dinner.
'When they got back they had sexual relations, but there was a problem with the condom - it had split.
'She seemed to think that he had done this deliberately but he insisted that it was an accident.’
Whatever her views about the incident, she appeared relaxed and untroubled at the seminar the next day where Assange met Woman B, another pretty blonde, also in her 20s, but younger than Woman A.
[...]
One source close to the investigation said the woman had insisted he wear a condom, but the following morning he made love to her without one.
This was the basis for the rape charge. But after the event she seemed unruffled enough to go out to buy food for his breakfast.
[...]
They parted on friendly terms and she bought his train ticket back to Stockholm. When she asked if he would call, he said: ‘Yes, I will.’

Assuming the above citations are factual.

Are these examples of rape? Mr Assange certainly appears promiscuous, but there's nothing illegal about that.

I find Woman B's accusation of rape ludicrous. Woman gets raped, goes out to buy rapist breakfast, buys him a trainticket and sees him off, asks if he will call her. That's not rape, that's consensual sex she afterwards regretted.

Woman A's accusation is almost as crazy. It seems impossible to tell if the condom split deliberately or accidentally, and a person is innocent until proven guilty. Either way, both women did not go to the police until after they had talked with eachother and found out they had both had sex with mr Assange.

It gets better, with this article from Crikey
The women are named there, it seems 'Woman A' is Ardin and 'Woman B' is Wilén.

In the case of Ardin it is clear that she has thrown a party in Assange’s honour at her flat after the “crime” and tweeted to her followers that she is with the “the world’s coolest smartest people, it’s amazing!”. Go on the internet and see for yourself. That Ardin has sought unsuccessfully to delete these exculpatory tweets from the public record should be a matter of grave concern. That she has published on the internet a guide on how to get revenge on cheating boyfriends ever graver.

Woman gets raped, then throws party in rapists' honour. No further comment necessary.

This wasn't rape, these were two women who are after revenge because they felt cheated upon. Which I consider more than a little naive on their part. If you have sex with someone famous outside a relationship it's unlikely you're their only conquest.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Anyone have any evidence Sweden has prosecuted anyone else for consensual sex without a condom? And this is an extraditable charge?

How can anyone take this charge seriously?

 

[fuelair]

If it gets him caught and halted, I really don't care. I admit it would bother me otherwise, but not with what he has done.

 

[a_unique_person]

If the files had been leaked to the newspapers that are publishing them, they still would have published them. Publishing leaked files is not a criminal act. To a large extent, they only confirm what everyone knew already.

 

[Childlike Empress]

This affair is deeply embarrassing for the cute communist kingdom of Sweden. From one of the cables already released:

Sweden's official security policy is non-participation in military alliances during peacetime and neutrality during wartime. Its active participation in the NATO Partnership for Peace and its role in leading the European Union's 1,500 troops-strong Nordic Battle group give the lie to the official policy. [...] Within the EU, Sweden often takes positions that coincide with our own on issues as diverse as the DOHA round, EU enlargement and Turkey, Swift banking data privacy, and the EU's relationship with Cuba.

 

[egslim]

If it gets him caught and halted,

Caught? Possibly.

Convicted for rape? Based on this information - I really don't think so.

Convicted for publishing leaked information? Not without a charge, and none has been filed so far.

Halted? No way. Wikileaks will continue to release the 251,287 documents with or without mr Assange. Not to mention insurance.aes256, which has been widely spread through p2p, and will be opened if the password is released.

Mr Assange has the distinction of being the first person on Interpol's most wanted list due to a broken condom. The only way that could happen is if some angry and powerful governmentofficials made a few pressing phonecalls.
And it's pure harassment, because the rape-charge is laughable and no other charge has been filed.

 

[INRM]

I don't think he did it; I think this is just a reprisal for Wikileaks

 

[Thunder]

I don't think he did it; I think this is just a reprisal for Wikileaks

what you think, is irrelevent. all that matters is what the facts say to the jury.

 

[Meed]

I hate it when condoms wikileak.

 

[egslim]

I don't think he did it; I think this is just a reprisal for Wikileaks

Please read the opening post, or the articles for more details.

He did have sex with the two women, but it appears it was consensual - until they found out about each other.

 

[casebro]

Isn't the UK appraising the warrant before deciding to extradite? Where is that going?

 

[ThunderChunky]

what you think, is irrelevent. all that matters is what the facts say to the jury.

That's a stupid world view.

 

[JJM 777]

And this is an extraditable charge?

How can anyone take this charge seriously?

I heard that if found guilty, Assange will be fined 750 EUR or something. Doesn't sound like an extraditable charge, and sounds like he should use a mediator to settle the case and pay the 750 EUR. Unless it makes him officially a "sex offender".

 

[fuelair]

Caught? Possibly.

Convicted for rape? Based on this information - I really don't think so.

Convicted for publishing leaked information? Not without a charge, and none has been filed so far.

Halted? No way. Wikileaks will continue to release the 251,287 documents with or without mr Assange. Not to mention insurance.aes256, which has been widely spread through p2p, and will be opened if the password is released.

Mr Assange has the distinction of being the first person on Interpol's most wanted list due to a broken condom. The only way that could happen is if some angry and powerful governmentofficials made a few pressing phonecalls.
And it's pure harassment, because the rape-charge is laughable and no other charge has been filed.

Possibly my use of the word halted was misleading. I am unconcerned as to what brings him to easily accessible, merely that it occurs. I suspect the rest can be easily handled - and the systems will be far better as things move along. As I have stated before (in mildly different terms), he is a little kid showing off for real people by being naughty. Nothing he leaked will shake up anything that actually needs shaking (why I admire Ellsberg, but find Assange obnoxious). In both cases there were no actual surprises (for anyone with an IQ over 100), but Ellsberg's verified suspicions of something that was harmful for the US, though done by some elements of it,
while Assange's prove that diplomacy is still operating exactly as it always has and, likely, always will BUT have also, directly and indirectly, certainly caused (with more to come) problems with/between Afghans and US troops, Iran (I'm fine with that) and it's neighbors - not to mention probably making it unlikely they will be able to functionally support any clean-up of Iran (I'm not fine with that). And some others, watch and see.

 

[Meed]

Julian Assange turned me into a newt. Call interpol.

 

[Doctor Evil]

Julian Assange turned me into a newt. Call interpol.

And yet you can type. I assume that you got better, then?

 

[Ziggurat]

I hate it when condoms wikileak.

FTW!

 

[Ziggurat]

He did have sex with the two women, but it appears it was consensual - until they found out about each other.

Information wants to be free!

 

[Toontown]

I haven't looked into the rape charges, but one fact is certain: Julian Assange does not have good sense. He has pissed off half the governments on earth, including his own. And the other half don't like him.

 

[lionking]

I haven't looked into the rape charges, but one fact is certain: Julian Assange does not have good sense. He has pissed off half the governments on earth, including his own. And the other half don't like him.

Well, truth hurts.