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John Paul II canonized

Kaarjuus

Critical Thinker
Kaarjuus
Joined
Nov 29, 2005
Messages
252
John Paul's 'miracle' cures cancer

However, he made a dramatic recovery after a vision of John Paul II apparently came to his wife Elisabeth. "One night, the pope appeared to her in a dream, holding a small child in his hand and walking on a road of white cobblestones," he told La Stampa newspaper
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Will John Paul II be excommunicated and buried in unsanctified soil if I claim to have seen him in my dreams before my house burns down?
 
Wow.. didn't know of that piece of history. From the wikipedia article:

Monsignor Carlo Liberati, the church official who advanced Pius IX's beatification, said Pius should not be judged by the Mortara case: "In the process of beatification, this wasn't considered a problem because it was a habit of the times" to take baptised Jews and raise them as Catholics. "We can't look at the church with the eyes of the year 2000, with all of the religious liberty that we have now," Liberati said.
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Cool. I'm looking forward to seeing Borgia canonized. After all, those were habits of the times.
 
Kaarjuus said:
Will John Paul II be excommunicated and buried in unsanctified soil if I claim to have seen him in my dreams before my house burns down?
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Maybe if your house is determined to have combusted spontaneously.
 
When I was young I had a dream that the pope molested me with a crucifix. Miracle?
 
Kaarjuus said:
Cool. I'm looking forward to seeing Borgia canonized. After all, those were habits of the times.
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Which one? There were two Borgia popes. The first was apparently not a bad guy.

Although the second more than made up for that. Still, it was all in good fun. Much of the evil reputation of the Borgias was due to contemporary disdain for their origins: they were Spanish, and their Italian peers didn't much care to be bested in their Renaissance reindeer games by a Spanish family. Not that the Borgias weren't perfectly awful; they just weren't much worse than everybody else. But nasty gossip tends to outlive the people who spread it...
 
Isn't it in questionable taste for a member of the Catholic clergy to be walking around, in dreams or otherwise, holding the hand of a child? Not that most of them aren't perfectly decent people; I'm just sayin'....
 
By spontaneously, I assume you mean miraculously

ceo_esq said:
Maybe if your house is determined to have combusted spontaneously.
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Who determines that a fire is of miraculous origin? Fire inspectors don’t work in a discipline that allows, let alone rewards, such a conclusion. “Fire of unknown origin” is unsatisfying enough for them; “fire by interventon of Our Lady of Notre Dame” or some such is way out of their field.

Who, after all, is in the business of defining the miraculous? Why, priests of course: men whose occupation requires them to believe – or profess to believe – in the supernatural, and whose livelihood depends on fostering credulity among laypeople.

My point is simple, and I’m sure you’ve already seen it: The Church manufactures miracles. Nobody else can do it.

I wonder why they’re in such a hurry to declare that old Polish guy a saint? (Wasn’t JP23 a record saint-maker himself?) I get the impression that the Church is anxious about its position in the world, and wants to fortify and publicize itself with Strange Things Happening Every Day.
 
TragicMonkey said:
The miraculiciousness of a fire can be assessed by the flavor of the marshmallows roasted over it. If they're divinely yummy, it's miraculous.
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Well in that case im a miracle worker. I've had some darn good marshmallows in my time. I suggest somebody immortalize me, bronze will do nicely.
 
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