John Edward - psychic or what?

[RemieV]

Yup, I totally manipulated you into entering this thread with that title. BWAHAHA.

Okay, so, I ran the Challenge for three years, and I get how people who claim to be psychic operate. I've had readings from tons of psychics - both famous and not - and have been able to see through them the vast majority of the time, though I will say that John Oliver is impressive, and the only thing that causes me to discount him is an assumption that can neither be proven nor falsified.

I've also seen psychics do Vegas shows. In person, I mean. These include James Van Praagh and John Edward. Van Praagh was awful. I mean, he couldn't psychic his way out of a paper bag.

Edward, on the other hand, did one thing that was so solid that I was impressed. I can't figure out how he did it. I've mentioned this to skeptics before, and they are going with the "obviously that was a plant" route. I remain unconvinced. So, I'm going to tell you what happened. If you can, tell me how he did it.

I was standing in line for the show. The line for the show went out the theatre doors and into the casino proper - meaning that it was very loud, and that no one was around besides people perhaps fifteen feet away who were gambling at tables. While waiting to get into the show, I only spoke to one person. This man, who was around fifty five years old (I'm guessing) was named, let's say, Liam. (I am picking a name with roughly the same popularity as the real one.)

I spoke to Liam for about five minutes. He was from Canada, and was in town for only three days. He loved John Edward's television shows, and when he got into town and saw the billboards announcing that he would be giving a performance, Liam bought a ticket. He showed me the ticket. I was in the mid-range tier of tickets, and he was in the lowest tier. The ticket said he had paid cash - meaning that he was not comped in by a performer.

So far, three important things:

1) He was from out of town.
2) He bought his ticket spontaneously.
3) He paid cash for it.

We went inside, and Liam took his seat, and I took mine. I could see him from where I was sitting if I turned around. I should add - I was attending the show under a false name, and I was costumed in such a way that I was not recognizable as me. I had a fake backstory that I responded with any time anyone asked me what brought me to the show.

Continuing.

John Edward eventually came out on stage and began his readings. Most of what he said was unverifiable hullaballoo. Until...

He pointed toward the table behind me, where Liam was sitting, and said that he was getting the name 'Joshua'. I am again using a fake name of the same level of popularity. And I don't mean that he said he was getting a 'j' or the name 'Josh' or the feeling of a male presence. I mean that John Edward pointed at the table where Liam was sitting and said he was getting the name Joshua.

So Liam stood up. One of the ushers brought him a microphone so that he could communicate with Edward. Edward again said that he had gotten the name 'Joshua', and then said that there was something weird about it, because he had the sensation that the name was LIAM's. Then Edward paused for a moment. Liam had not said anything at this time. Edward said that, though Liam's name was Joshua, he had not introduced himself that way to the rest of his table. Edward then asked Joshua to hand the microphone over to someone else at the table, and then asked that person what Joshua had introduced himself as. The person said, "Liam."

Edward then asked Joshua to take out his driver's license and show it to everyone else at the table. The driver's license said that his name was Joshua Liam Smith.

So, important facts garnered there:

1) I know that Joshua introduced himself as Liam, because that is how he introduced himself to me. He never intimated in any way that it was his middle name.
2) Edward pulled, out of thin air, not only the guy's real name, but also the fact that the man wasn't using his real name.

Edward then did a reading for Liam. And it was a good reading - really good. At the very least, an excellent exercise in cold reading. But no amount of cold reading would yield something like that. I have seen Edward since, and he did not try the same trick again.

I have an audio recording of all of this, because I had a digital voice recorder hidden in my purse at the time and started recording before I even approached the theatre doors.

Now, because Edward gave me so much information, I have since been able to track down Joshua Liam. He is convinced that Edward is legit, and that he had no way of knowing the information other than psychic abilities. That, of course, means nothing, but I point it out because I want to note that I performed my due diligence. The guy really is from Canada. The guy's name really is Joshua Liam Smith (or something of that type, since I'm not giving real names).

A few other facts besides that:

If you pay cash for a ticket, you do not have to give your name to the box office. They don't even ask for it. That's how, while I was attending that show, my name was Emily. When you pick up a ticket, you do not have to present identification. Not only that, but the box office is run by the casino, not by the staff of the show. It is extraordinarily unlikely that, even if Edward's team asked, the casino would cough up a list of attendees.

Since I was able to get in touch with Liam, he told me that he did not speak to anyone on John Edward's staff. He did not, in fact, speak to anyone at length besides me.

All that said - how do you think he did it?

I will clarify with more information if anyone has questions. As I said - I have the whole show recorded.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

All that said - how do you think he did it?

It's against forum rules to give away magician's secrets..
That said, you would think if someone could really communicate with the dead, they could come up with a lot more useful information than they do ..

 

[MattusMaximus]

It is entirely possible that Joshua Liam is both a plant and from Canada. Or what about the possibility that he knows someone who knows someone on Edward's team who could have surreptitiously gathered the info for such a hot read?

 

[RemieV]

It's against forum rules to give away magician's secrets..
That said, you would think if someone could really communicate with the dead, they could come up with a lot more useful information than they do ..

Oh, his entire shows are quite good. He's one of the better psychics I've dealt with - quite amazing, really. The reason that I'm giving ONLY this example is that I had no way to verify anything else he said. Meaning simply that people have a tendency to agree with a psychic whether they actually agree or not, because they feel as though they've been put on the spot, and they want to be helpful.

This is a great example because what he said is independently verifiable.

 

[RemieV]

It is entirely possible that Joshua Liam is both a plant and from Canada. Or what about the possibility that he knows someone who knows someone on Edward's team who could have surreptitiously gathered the info for such a hot read?

Elaborating...

I was also a PI for three years. I have found no indication that Joshua Liam and John Edward have ever known one another, or have ever met before. I suppose it's possible that John Edward could have chosen a totally random person in Canada to be a plant and flown them in, but it seems rather an inconvenient thing to do. The show was not being videotaped or anything. If it was a stunt, it was to an exceedingly small audience - perhaps 150 people, most of whom believe in Edward anyway. And, like I said, in subsequent shows, no such rock solid proofs were offered.

It is possible that Liam spoke to someone on Edward's staff - but he wasn't staying at the hotel in which the show took place, and claims that the only person he spoke to at any length whatsoever at the show was me. (And I am not working for John Edward.)

 

[RemieV]

Another thing - Liam was in town with his wife. His wife did not attend the show. I suppose it is possible that Liam's wife could have contacted Edward's staff directly in an attempt to give Liam a gift of closure with his father (who was dead, and was the person that Liam hoped Edward would contact).

I would think, though, that if his wife went to those great lengths (and great lengths were required since neither of them even knew about the show until the day before it took place), she would have wanted to be in attendance as well.

 

[bookitty]

I already wrote about my John Edwards experience

About John Edwards. About 7 years ago he performed here in Los Angeles at the Palladium, a huge venue with an open floor plan. At the time, I was a bartender there, we were all called into work that day.

When I got there I was handed a vest and told that I would be an usher or loose my job. Neat. Chairs had been brought in, and sections had been set up based on the position of the doors. It was my job to look at the ticket and get each person into the correct seat. This was odd because the venue wasn't sold out and this left noticeable blank spots.

Because the seating arrangement was last-minute and not clearly marked, there were lines in front of the inside doors as people waited to be seated. There were two different people "working" these lines, both women. They would talk about how excited they were, ask questions and chit-chat with the audience members. Then they would leave the line on some flimsy excuse. Come back a few minutes later and start over. I could see other people leaving and returning to the lines at the other doors.

The whole set up was totally suspicious and by the time the show started, all of us bartenders-turned-ushers, were waiting to see what would happen.

Apparently his plants weren't very good. He got a few spot-on hits but misses were the norm. Even the audience seemed to be getting frustrated. Some of the responses sounded confrontational.

Later though, one of my co-workers who had noticed the plants and the misses, said "Obviously he is going to fail sometimes because so many people go towards the light after they die. So he can only talk to those who are still on earth. Those people are evil and they will give him the wrong information." *headslap*

 

[maledoro]

Maybe Edwards told "Liam" to go out and talk to some audience members and identify himself by his middle name. Edwards could have paid for the ticket himself and tell "Liam" to be in the designated seat, or had somehow got info from "Liam" shortly after the ticket was purchased, especially "Liam's" seat and row numbers.

 

[Fitter]

All Canadians are notorious liars. Especially those who go by their middle names.

 

[Limbo]

All that said - how do you think he did it?

Psi. Face it! Don't let your skepticism become pathological.

 

[RemieV]

This was different from that in that I can verify Liam spoke to no one else in line except me. Additionally, I was looking for precisely what you are describing - that was my purpose in being there.

On top of both those things - Liam says that he spoke to no one else. It's possible that he's forgetting, or intentionally ignoring that he did.

I will say this, though:

Casinos are a different setup. They don't let random people wander around pretending to be staff. The ushers all had casino name badges that were engraved. They were clearly employees of the Flamingo.

The only people who went back and forth between the audience and the backstage area were photographers who were taking souvenir photos. I assumed, at first, that this was how the trick was done, and that these people were not actually from Las Vegas, but were on Edward's staff.

I, therefore, researched the photographers and the photography company. They are not associated with John Edward, and they really are residents of Las Vegas.

I also had an individual standing outside of the theatre to see if, at the commencement of the show, any radio signals cropped up and then disappeared. The scanner revealed no such activity.

 

[welshdean]

It's possible that while 'Liam' was checking in, one of Edwards minions heard him chatting with family/friends and they used the name Liam. As 'Liam' passed a credit card over the minion notice the card read 'Joshua L Smith'.
It's possible that 'Joshua L Smith' was a shill.
It's possible that 'Joshua L Smith' was overheard on the phone where he had to give his real name for some reason.
Etc, etc, etc ad nauseum.

It's impossible for John Edward to talk to dead people!

 

[RemieV]

Maybe Edwards told "Liam" to go out and talk to some audience members and identify himself by his middle name. Edwards could have paid for the ticket himself and tell "Liam" to be in the designated seat, or had somehow got info from "Liam" shortly after the ticket was purchased, especially "Liam's" seat and row numbers.

This, of course, is always a possibility. The reason I am disregarding it is that in subsequent shows there was nothing of the same calibre in the readings. If John Edward really is paying off (or convincing) people to pretend these sorts of things, then his readings should be WAYYYYY more impressive.

Again - the entire audience consisted of perhaps 150 people, most of whom believe in John Edward anyway. There was no obvious reason to go to extraordinary lengths for this particular crowd - though there is the possibility that a television producer was in the audience, and I was simply unaware.

From everything I was able to tell, though, Liam was sincere - and remains so.

 

[Sledge]

Maybe he just got lucky. Has to happen from time to time.

 

[Apology]

It's possible that while 'Liam' was checking in, one of Edwards minions heard him chatting with family/friends and they used the name Liam. As 'Liam' passed a credit card over the minion notice the card read 'Joshua L Smith'.
It's possible that 'Joshua L Smith' was a shill.
It's possible that 'Joshua L Smith' was overheard on the phone where he had to give his real name for some reason.
Etc, etc, etc ad nauseum.

It's impossible for John Edward to talk to dead people!

RemieV saw Liam's ticket, and he paid cash.

 

[RemieV]

It's possible that while 'Liam' was checking in, one of Edwards minions heard him chatting with family/friends and they used the name Liam. As 'Liam' passed a credit card over the minion notice the card read 'Joshua L Smith'.
It's possible that 'Joshua L Smith' was a shill.
It's possible that 'Joshua L Smith' was overheard on the phone where he had to give his real name for some reason.
Etc, etc, etc ad nauseum.

It's impossible for John Edward to talk to dead people!

I'm not saying that John Edward speaks to dead people. I am simply asking if anyone can think of a mechanism I haven't already considered.

I'll say again - Liam attended the show alone. There was no family/friend for him to discuss with, or say his real name to. He did not pay with a credit card. He paid with cash. They do not ask for identification, as illustrated by the fact that I was able to attend the show with a totally false name. Additionally, the box office and the performers of shows are totally different entities. The box office folk are employed by the Flamingo, not by Edward.

At subsequent shows, I paid with a credit card that was not mine and got the ticket far in advance to see if I would be researched and used in the reading. I even e-mailed Edward's staff and coughed up false information on my assumed identity in the hopes that they would just blindly use it and not double check. Not even a nibble.

 

[bookitty]

This, of course, is always a possibility. The reason I am disregarding it is that in subsequent shows there was nothing of the same calibre in the readings. If John Edward really is paying off (or convincing) people to pretend these sorts of things, then his readings should be WAYYYYY more impressive.

Again - the entire audience consisted of perhaps 150 people, most of whom believe in John Edward anyway. There was no obvious reason to go to extraordinary lengths for this particular crowd - though there is the possibility that a television producer was in the audience, and I was simply unaware.

From everything I was able to tell, though, Liam was sincere - and remains so.

In the show that I saw, every single person sat in a preassigned seat. The possibilities for exploitation with this set up are endless.

You might want to email Mark Edward (Skeptic/mentalist) and see if he's got any ideas. Coincidentally enough, his latest blog entry describes a similar circumstance.

 

[Apology]

I almost hate to suggest it, RemieV, but who else knew you were going? Is it possible that someone leaked your plans to go to the show to Edwards?

I really, really hope not

 

[maledoro]

This, of course, is always a possibility. The reason I am disregarding it is that in subsequent shows there was nothing of the same calibre in the readings. If John Edward really is paying off (or convincing) people to pretend these sorts of things, then his readings should be WAYYYYY more impressive.

One of the best ways to appear sincere is to have the occasional mistake. Edward might not have been paying people in all of his shows, but some of them.

Again - the entire audience consisted of perhaps 150 people, most of whom believe in John Edward anyway. There was no obvious reason to go to extraordinary lengths for this particular crowd - though there is the possibility that a television producer was in the audience, and I was simply unaware.

You could have 149 of them believe in Edward and the 150th still be a plant.

From everything I was able to tell, though, Liam was sincere - and remains so.

Look out for the "sin" in "sincere".

 

[RemieV]

I almost hate to suggest it, RemieV, but who else knew you were going? Is it possible that someone leaked your plans to go to the show to Edwards?

I really, really hope not

The only people who knew were on the JREF staff.