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Islam not a religion, a political philosophy...

headscratcher4

Philosopher
headscratcher4
Joined
Apr 14, 2002
Messages
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A number of right wing politicians and commentators have recently been making the case that Islam isn't a religion, it is really a political philosophy.

I'm trying to figure out why that would matter? I suppose we in the US give a lot more breadth to a person's religious belief (but probably not as much as we like to believe) than to a political belief. But, is there really much of a difference when it comes either to the legality or illegality of an action (i.e. plotting an attack, for example, or building a mosque).

Would not the latter be just as protected an activity as if it were a religion (if it were somehow deemed to not be a religion?). Could a neighborhood keep a well finance communist party headquarters out of a community any more than they could keep a mosque, catholic church or synagog away?

Please help me to understand what those who push this line of thinking are trying to prove by it...both politics and religion are protected actions, it seems to me, what am I missing?
 
Islam is a religion.

Islamism is a political philosophy.
 
What a moronic argument. You could say the same of any religion.

It smacks of the same bigotry when people used to ask if JFK would be working for the Pope.
 
headscratcher4 said:
A number of right wing politicians and commentators have recently been making the case that Islam isn't a religion, it is really a political philosophy.

I'm trying to figure out why that would matter? I suppose we in the US give a lot more breadth to a person's religious belief (but probably not as much as we like to believe) than to a political belief. But, is there really much of a difference when it comes either to the legality or illegality of an action (i.e. plotting an attack, for example, or building a mosque).

Would not the latter be just as protected an activity as if it were a religion (if it were somehow deemed to not be a religion?). Could a neighborhood keep a well finance communist party headquarters out of a community any more than they could keep a mosque, catholic church or synagog away?

Please help me to understand what those who push this line of thinking are trying to prove by it...both politics and religion are protected actions, it seems to me, what am I missing?
Click to expand...
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Unlike Christianity, there is no separation in the religioun... what is god's.. and what isn't... Ceasar's.
Islam includes everything.
 
headscratcher4 said:
I'm trying to figure out why that would matter? I suppose we in the US give a lot more breadth to a person's religious belief (but probably not as much as we like to believe) than to a political belief. But, is there really much of a difference when it comes either to the legality or illegality of an action (i.e. plotting an attack, for example, or building a mosque).
Click to expand...

What you're missing is that there's a difference between the structure of government and the particular policy choices of government. Political Islam makes demands not just on the policy of government, but on the very structure itself. And those demands are incompatible with democracy. The same is not true about many other religious beliefs which affect policy preferences. This isn't an issue of the legality of their actions, but of the consequences that their success would achieve.

Please help me to understand what those who push this line of thinking are trying to prove by it...both politics and religion are protected actions, it seems to me, what am I missing?
Click to expand...

I don't think the people making this argument are suggesting that such actions aren't protected (in the sense that they can't be banned by government). But if, as they believe, this does pose a qualitatively different sort of threat to western values, then it should be understood as such. One can act against such a threat without an outright ban, for example by arguing publicly against their ideas.
 
Zanders said:
But how does that render it not a religion?
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"Unlike Christianity, there is no separation in the ... religion..".
It is only a religion, with a lot of subsets in the all-inclusive nature of the belief.
 
Judaism is no longer a religion. It is now 100% intertwined with Zionism, both politically and culturally.
 
Islam is a religion. Its not more a political entity than Catholicism or Judaism.
 
Thunder said:
Islam is a religion. Its not more a political entity than Catholicism or Judaism.
Click to expand...

Islam itself is a religion, for sure, and it can be interpreted many ways, but there is a political philosophy called "Islamism". You should Google it.
 
Pardalis said:
Islam itself is a religion, for sure, and it can be interpreted many ways, but there is a political philosophy called "Islamism". You should Google it.
Click to expand...

Yes, there are Muslim extremists who bring their intense version of Islam into their political theories and goals. Just as many Israelis and some Jews bring their extreme views on Judaism into their political and military agendas.

However, this is not a reflection upon ALL Muslims & Islam, or ALL Jews & Judaism.

right...Pardalis?
 
Pardalis said:
Islam itself is a religion, for sure, and it can be interpreted many ways, but there is a political philosophy called "Islamism". You should Google it.
Click to expand...

That's fair, and (IMO) fairly accurate. (Though I think describing Islamism as merely a "political philosophy" is overly simplistic.)

However, the people who are saying that "Islam is not a religion, it's a political philosophy" are not making this distinction.
 
Cleon said:
That's fair, and (IMO) fairly accurate. (Though I think describing Islamism as merely a "political philosophy" is overly simplistic.)

However, the people who are saying that "Islam is not a religion, it's a political philosophy" are not making this distinction.
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No. No they are not.

They make NO distinction between Islam, radical Islam, Islamic extremism, Islamism, etc etc.

As far as they are concerned, Al-Qaeda and Hamas follow the genuine and true form of Islam, and all they ever needed to learn about Islam they learned on 9-11.
 
Thunder said:
However, this is not a reflection upon ALL Muslims & Islam, or ALL Jews & Judaism.

right...Pardalis?
Click to expand...

Of course.

Cleon said:
That's fair, and (IMO) fairly accurate. (Though I think describing Islamism as merely a "political philosophy" is overly simplistic.)

However, the people who are saying that "Islam is not a religion, it's a political philosophy" are not making this distinction.
Click to expand...

I agree.
 
Religion and politics seem the same because they are the same -- they are memetic narratives oriented around evolving to successfully spread to as many people as possible.

This includes adopting ideas of forcing themselves on others. Yes, even we dear lovers of "democracy" fall into this trap.


And now you've taken your first big step, grasshoppers.
 
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I Ratant said:
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Unlike Christianity, there is no separation in the religioun... what is god's.. and what isn't... Ceasar's.
Islam includes everything.
Click to expand...

You can take that passage and interpret it as a separation of Church and State, but it's also worth remembering that for centuries the practice was that the church supported the monarchies and vise-versa. In the end, all religion boils down to how people choose to interpret their holy texts and less what the text actually says.
 
headscratcher4 said:
Please help me to understand what those who push this line of thinking are trying to prove by it...both politics and religion are protected actions, it seems to me, what am I missing?
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It's pretty simple. By reclassifying it Islam "churches" no longer get the same benefits as Christian churchs.

Islam is as much a political philosophy as Christianity. Those who disagree really need to spend some time with right wing evangelicals.
 
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Mycroft said:
You can take that passage and interpret it as a separation of Church and State, but it's also worth remembering that for centuries the practice was that the church supported the monarchies and vise-versa. In the end, all religion boils down to how people choose to interpret their holy texts and less what the text actually says.
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Yes, but that was then, this is long after the Reformation began the dilution of the excessive hold the Church had on the population.
Some of us are still in favor of maintaining this separation.
 
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