Islam and Rape: Blame the Victim

[Cello Man]

Domestic news from our ally, Pakistan...

Attempts by President Musharraf to abolish religiously influenced rape trials are met with fierce opposition by Islamic fundamentalists within the government:

http://http://www.breitbart.com/news/na/061116020318.6jkvlwln.html

At present the laws say that women must produce four Muslim male witnesses as evidence of rape -- an almost impossible burden of evidence -- or potentially face adultery charges themselves.

I suppose that any time a Pakistani woman walks down a street she should have four male Muslims with her as potential witnesses in case she gets raped. Can you picture four guys who would simply "witness" a rape and not intervene, unless they happen to be in on it? Why four, anyway? Is a woman's testimony so inversely reliable that it requires a 400% compensation by the opposite sex to make it come out even?

Opposition leader and MMA secretary general Maulana Fazlur Rehman gave a fiery speech to lawmakers on Wednesday in which he warned that the bill would "turn Pakistan into a free-sex society."

Uh, sure. If you hold people accountable for their actions and help those that have been hurt, it will spell the end of your glorious society!

Times like these make me ashamed to be a member of a species capable of such staggering cruelty and stupidity. Remind we again why it's so taboo to openly criticize religion. When murder of unbelievers is justified and rape is all but given a thumbs-up, isn't it time we offended the oh-so delicate sensibilities of the people who do this?

 

[ImaginalDisc]

I suppose that any time a Pakistani woman walks down a street she should have four male Muslims with her as potential witnesses in case she gets raped. Can you picture four guys who would simply "witness" a rape and not intervene, unless they happen to be in on it? Why four, anyway? Is a woman's testimony so inversely reliable that it requires a 400% compensation by the opposite sex to make it come out even?

IIRC it's because Mohammed was asked to judge a rape case that would have worked out badly no matter what he did, so he made a judegemnt that set the standard of evidence impossibly high, which set a precedent.

 

[Rufo]

Times like these make me ashamed to be a member of a species capable of such staggering cruelty and stupidity. Remind we again why it's so taboo to openly criticize religion. When murder of unbelievers is justified and rape is all but given a thumbs-up, isn't it time we offended the oh-so delicate sensibilities of the people who do this?

Uhm... to be honest I can't think of any person with reasonably democratic ideals who would consider it inappropriate to criticize this law. What is this taboo you speak of? Why would you need to criticize religion?

 

[Cello Man]

Uhm... to be honest I can't think of any person with reasonably democratic ideals who would consider it inappropriate to criticize this law.

I think you're confusing democracy with an enlightened society. Palestine held democratic elections too, and they elected a fringe terrorist group, Hamas into majority power. Democracy doesn't guarantee a decent society, it simply gives a voice to the majority. And if the majority of people in that country are crazy, then crazy is what you get.

What is this taboo you speak of?

What taboo?! What cave have you been living in? Hardly a single religion out there can handle an unkind word or a skeptical attitude. As far as criticism of Islam is concerned, I direct you to these photos, to infer what you will.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/muslimprotest.asp

Why would you need to criticize religion?

The answer to this should be exponentially more obvious each day. People throughout much of the world are stuck in the Dark Ages. Philosophically, morally, technologically, scientifically, educationally, many of our fellow humans are completely backward. A great deal of the opposition to progress is because of our unwillingness to look critically at several Bronze Age texts that say how we should live.

 

[Darth Rotor]

People throughout much of the world are stuck in the Dark Ages.

That tired simile is the topic of an excellent discussion in the "Latest Commentary Issues" forum and a not so excellent discussion on the Politics forum.

That said, someone has probably done a study on traffic safety in Saudi Arabia and other Muslim nations, and has come to the conclusion that those societies are safer, due to a lack of woman drivers. Since I don't read Arabic well enough, I am left with guessing.

*ducks as women on the forum hurl "the book" at DR*

As to the OP, if a woman has two men with her, how often is she raped by strangers? Thanks to ID for providing a clue I can follow up on.

DR

 

[Cello Man]

That said, someone has probably done a study on traffic safety in Saudi Arabia and other Muslim nations, and has come to the conclusion that those societies are safer, due to a lack of woman drivers. Since I don't read Arabic well enough, I am left with guessing.

(italics mine)

I'm pretty certain this is just a harmless joke, but in case it isnt...

They've probably done a study, or has it actually been done? Assuming the latter, it begs the following questions...

Who commissioned the study? Do they have an agenda? If it was in fact shown that those countries have safer roads, could it be because only 50% of their population drives, and therefore the roads are less congested?

Seriously though, let's get back on topic. I see the questions raised in my OP as an important issue, and I feel that letting it slide under the rug would do a disservice to human decency.

 

[Dave1001]

It comes across like you're working in tandem with fundamentalists when you sum up Islam as "Rape: Blame the Victim". They would like to believe that they express Islam's true position. So apparently would you. I get the sense that the enemies of both parties are the millions of moderate muslims who want good legal protections against rape and a generally just world. Both sides disgust me, the fundamentalists, and people who would write thread headlines such as "Islam and Rape: Blame the Victim".

 

[Darth Rotor]

(italics mine)

I'm pretty certain this is just a harmless joke, but in case it isnt...

Yes, it was, and not a bell ringer at that.

Seriously though, let's get back on topic. I see the questions raised in my OP as an important issue, and I feel that letting it slide under the rug would do a disservice to human decency.

Then post it on an Islamic discussion board, so their carpets don't fly over it oblivious to its merits. You are preaching to the Western choir here: theist, atheist, or otherwise.

Oh, wait, is your motivation the introduction of an outside agency into the lives of those 150,000,000 or so people, to make sure they finally understand that they are "wrong" and one day "get it?"

As to "Human decency:" there's a lovely platitude.

Is it anything like common sense?

Times like these make me ashamed to be a member of a species capable of such staggering cruelty and stupidity.

Member of a species. Address things, perhaps, on your own scale and scope, and build improvement from within, one corner of the world at a time.

Then again, the species you are part of is also endowed with immense caring and sharing and open hearted charity. Some members of the species, such as the Amish who prayed for and asked for help for the family of the man who murdered those girls in Pennsylvania, are indeed paragons of such virtue, in contrast to those who have caused you to rend your garment.

Consider your fellow homo sapiens in the Red Cross and Red Crescent who work the world over to make their fellow humans' lives better.

Glass half empty this morning, brother Cello?

DR