Is the Patriot Act unconstitutional?

Rob Lister

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I have heard many posters on many boards claim that the Patriot Act is unconstitutional. Everytime I have asked for clarification I have been given generalizations at best or just told to read it for myself. I did just that. I read it and dang'd if I can find anything in it that is decidedly unconstitutional. Still, since so many people claim it is unconstitutional, it must be true, right?

I've got an open mind. I am asking in an unbiased manner. I'm a lump of clay; mold me!
 
Rob Lister said:
I have heard many posters on many boards claim that the Patriot Act is unconstitutional. Everytime I have asked for clarification I have been given generalizations at best or just told to read it for myself. I did just that. I read it and dang'd if I can find anything in it that is decidedly unconstitutional. Still, since so many people claim it is unconstitutional, it must be true, right?

I've got an open mind. I am asking in an unbiased manner. I'm a lump of clay; mold me!
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Let me put it this way, its about as unconstitutional as the RICO act. Mind you, that isn't a big endorsement.
 
Rob Lister said:
I have heard many posters on many boards claim that the Patriot Act is unconstitutional. Everytime I have asked for clarification I have been given generalizations at best or just told to read it for myself. I did just that. I read it and dang'd if I can find anything in it that is decidedly unconstitutional. Still, since so many people claim it is unconstitutional, it must be true, right?

I've got an open mind. I am asking in an unbiased manner. I'm a lump of clay; mold me!
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Three choices for 'yes' - not enough options for 'no'.

I vote 'no' with the reason that I haven't been convinced that 'yes' is the truth, not with the reason that I know that it is constitutional.

MattJ
 
Rob Lister said:
I ... or just told to read it for myself. I did just that. I read it and dang'd if I can find anything in it that is decidedly unconstitutional.
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Are you an expert in the field?
 
How about a position where you think parts of it are unconstitutional, but don't care? By which I mean, yeah it curtails some rights, but it's justifiable?

Not that that's my position, necessarily. I just would like to see more "willfully choosing what we believe to be wrong because it's expedient" choices in politics.
 
Okay, unlike most claims, this is one where the negative can be EASILY tested: just look at each part of the Act and find where the Constitution grants the Federal government that power. Yes, I know, it's long, so why don't we just start with Section 215?
 
While most elements are not unconstitutional, writing a law making driving your own car illegal is not unconstitutional, either.

The 'Act' is actually a lot of changes to a lot of laws. Although sections of the act could be stricken down, other portions will stick.
 
Re: Re: Re: Is the Patriot Act unconstitutional?

So far I have one yes (first option) vote but still lack the exact statute and reasoning. You don't have to be verbose, at least not at first.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Is the Patriot Act unconstitutional?

Rob Lister said:
So far I have one yes (first option) vote but still lack the exact statute and reasoning. You don't have to be verbose, at least not at first.
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I voted for the second option, but then I changed my mind and provided some information anyway.
So it wasn't me! :p
 
Re: Re: Is the Patriot Act unconstitutional?

aerocontrols said:
Three choices for 'yes' - not enough options for 'no'.

I vote 'no' with the reason that I haven't been convinced that 'yes' is the truth, not with the reason that I know that it is constitutional.

MattJ
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Can a moderator please change the last option to:

No, or not as far as I know.
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Pretty please. Cherry on top type.
 
I'm so torn!!I'm so torn!!The ACLU's pizzia palour video did it for me.The Democrats are socialists But I don't want to live in a 1984 like police state either.There is no good choice in this election.Maybe i just wont vote.
 
I do not recall the Supreme Court ruling it to be unconstitutional, and they are the only ones that can make that determination.
 
Just in case anyone is interested I have posted the Patriot Act in pdf format on my website where you can read it online or download it.

Patriot Act

I admit that I have yet to read it all the way through but perhaps now I'll finally print it out and actually read it, hehe.

Upon a quick once over it is apparent the most of it at least is pretty reasonable stuff but there are some things that are disturbing but I am going to refrain from posting specifics until I have the opportunity to give it a closer look.
 
Not a particularly specific point, but have you considered the fact that we've yet to see this in any other form, without the "Changed to..." and "Amended to read...."? This makes the whole damn thing very confusing.

But then, I would suspect that was the idea from the get-go.

By the way: Anyone else notice that when Clinton first proposed this damn thing, Rush Limbaugh and his ilk were vehemently opposed to it. But when Bush came up with practically the SAME BILL, it was OKAY!?!?
 
ssibal said:
I do not recall the Supreme Court ruling it to be unconstitutional, and they are the only ones that can make that determination.
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True but they do not seek out documents to rule on but rather wait until it is brought before the court so just because it has not been ruled unconstitutional yet does not prohibit the possibility that it may, or perhaps more likely specific portions, be ruled unconstitutional in the future.

They have ruled on some aspects in that they ruled that despite what was outlined in the act the Government cannot hold detainees indefinitely without legal counsel.

They’re ruling was still rather vague in that it did not set any specific time limits.

I do know of one American that was being held who filed suit to try and force the government to reveal the evidence it had against him. He was subsequently released (probably due to a weak case against him) and the action never actually ended up before the court. This is all from memory so I may have many details wrong and I do not have a link handy but I believe this is essentially correct.

Perhaps someone else knows what I’m talking about and can fill the story in a bit.
 
evildave said:
While most elements are not unconstitutional, writing a law making driving your own car illegal is not unconstitutional, either.
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It is if the Feds do it; nothing in the Constitution gives them that power.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Is the Patriot Act unconstitutional?

Rob Lister said:
So far I have one yes (first option) vote but still lack the exact statute and reasoning.
Click to expand...

Yes, you do. Check my link.
 
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