Is Selling Amway Child Abuse?

[Joecool]

http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/am...y-kids-weigh-in/comment-page-1/#comment-60059

Feel free to share your thoughts, experiences and feelings so that other ACAS’s don’t feel so alone, and so that potential Amway IBOs (Independent Business Owners) will consider the effect that joining Amway may have on their families.

To start off our virtual ACAS cope session, we will post a message we just received from “R.” R. reports some of the devastating effects that his/her father’s foray into Amway had on him/her and their family. As a result of her father’s Amway pipedream, R.’s family was subjected to financial hardship, embarrassment and loss of friends. R.’s father forced the children to listen to “long, boring tapes,” a practice that many consider child abuse and could have long-term psychological effects.

Here is R.'s story in its entirety. Feel free to add your own or comment below.

“I don’t have a lot to say, I don’t even know details about how the company works, but I do want to share my experience.

“My father has a tendency to trust people who tell him he can make ‘easy’ money. He is a very honest man, don’t take me wrong, but he is also very naive. We have lost a lot of money every time he gets involved in some sort of “business”.

“When I was about 10 years old my father became involved with Amway. He was completely brainwashed by the idea. Everyday, while we were in the car driving somewhere, he would listen to these really long, boring tapes. We would beg him to turn it off, but he said he had to listen to them because he needed to learn. I have no idea what he learned, I guess nothing.

“My mom told him many times that Amway was not a good idea, but he was obsessed. He spent money we didn’t have buying these overpriced, crappy products that we never used, and the stupid tapes he made us listen to. I think he had to pay for seminars too, I am not sure.

“He tried to get other people to join Amway, but everyone was dodging him. He became this really boring “salesman” nobody wanted to talk to.

“Bottom line is he never made a dime. It only cost us money. Instead of being an extra income, it became an extra expense that we could not afford. Finally, he ended up getting out.

“I am not saying it is a scheme, because honestly I don’t know and I could not care less. The truth is, the average Joe that becomes a member doesn’t make any money. The odds are completely against it. My aunt was also a member… I actually thing she was the one who convinced my father to get in… and she didn’t make a dime either.

“I don’t want to offend anybody, but I have seen the consequences of getting involved with this ‘company’… I don’t think it is worth the time or the effort.”

WHAT DO YOU THINK? HAVE YOUR PARENTS BEEN INVOLVED WITH AMWAY? WHAT HAS BEEN THE EFFECT ON YOUR LIFE?

 

[MinnesotaBrant]

http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/am...y-kids-weigh-in/comment-page-1/#comment-60059

Feel free to share your thoughts, experiences and feelings so that other ACAS’s don’t feel so alone, and so that potential Amway IBOs (Independent Business Owners) will consider the effect that joining Amway may have on their families.

To start off our virtual ACAS cope session, we will post a message we just received from “R.” R. reports some of the devastating effects that his/her father’s foray into Amway had on him/her and their family. As a result of her father’s Amway pipedream, R.’s family was subjected to financial hardship, embarrassment and loss of friends. R.’s father forced the children to listen to “long, boring tapes,” a practice that many consider child abuse and could have long-term psychological effects.

Here is R.'s story in its entirety. Feel free to add your own or comment below.

“I don’t have a lot to say, I don’t even know details about how the company works, but I do want to share my experience.

“My father has a tendency to trust people who tell him he can make ‘easy’ money. He is a very honest man, don’t take me wrong, but he is also very naive. We have lost a lot of money every time he gets involved in some sort of “business”.

“When I was about 10 years old my father became involved with Amway. He was completely brainwashed by the idea. Everyday, while we were in the car driving somewhere, he would listen to these really long, boring tapes. We would beg him to turn it off, but he said he had to listen to them because he needed to learn. I have no idea what he learned, I guess nothing.

“My mom told him many times that Amway was not a good idea, but he was obsessed. He spent money we didn’t have buying these overpriced, crappy products that we never used, and the stupid tapes he made us listen to. I think he had to pay for seminars too, I am not sure.

“He tried to get other people to join Amway, but everyone was dodging him. He became this really boring “salesman” nobody wanted to talk to.

“Bottom line is he never made a dime. It only cost us money. Instead of being an extra income, it became an extra expense that we could not afford. Finally, he ended up getting out.

“I am not saying it is a scheme, because honestly I don’t know and I could not care less. The truth is, the average Joe that becomes a member doesn’t make any money. The odds are completely against it. My aunt was also a member… I actually thing she was the one who convinced my father to get in… and she didn’t make a dime either.

“I don’t want to offend anybody, but I have seen the consequences of getting involved with this ‘company’… I don’t think it is worth the time or the effort.”

WHAT DO YOU THINK? HAVE YOUR PARENTS BEEN INVOLVED WITH AMWAY? WHAT HAS BEEN THE EFFECT ON YOUR LIFE?

I do remember a guy who used to sell amway praying to his tv for hours a day as televangelists were on. I wonder what ever happened to that guy. Nope he wasn't a friend but I did buy a little amway from him. The product sucked as I remember.

Some gal tried to get me into amway. I listened to her for a few hours since she was cute then said not interested. She still insisted on giving me all her tapes of the amway meetings she went to as a loan. She got quite desperate when I told her I chucked them.

I did meet a someone who was making 20-30k from amway though. that was in the 90's. I guess it isn't all hooey.

 

[rwguinn]

A guy I knew wanted to meet for lunch-He was still working at the place I had been laid off from. He had another guy with him.
Introductions were made, lunch ordered, some small talk, then
"Have you heard about Amway"
"Yep--I'm not interested in the least"
"You can make a lot of money!"
"Pyramid schemes never make any money for the last guy in line"
Bastards stuck me with the check.

 

[theprestige]

I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say that child abuse is child abuse.

Selling Amway is selling Amway.

Selling Amway is only child abuse if you have children. And you abuse them. I almost forgot that part. And actually, I guess the "selling Amway" part isn't really necessary at all.

So no: selling Amway is not child abuse.

The other day, a man fell off a balcony at a baseball game, trying to catch a baseball. He fell to his death, right in front of his sun. Is attending a baseball game or catching a baseball child abuse?

 

[Bob Blaylock]

I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say that child abuse is child abuse.

Selling Amway is selling Amway.

Selling Amway is only child abuse if you have children. And you abuse them. I almost forgot that part. And actually, I guess the "selling Amway" part isn't really necessary at all.

So no: selling Amway is not child abuse.

I would agree, but I would add the following.

I've known people that were into Amway. There is a very disturbing cult-like influence that it seems to have on its members. I'm sure that some members are much more strongly affected by this than others; and I have little doubt that in some extreme situations, it could easily lead to parents abusing or neglecting their children who wouldn't do so if not for the influence that Amway was having over them.

Not that Amway itself, or participation therein, is abusive; but that it could be a significant factor in promoting abuse.

I suppose the same can be true of anything that anyone allows to have too much undue influence over their lives.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say that child abuse is child abuse.

Selling Amway is selling Amway.

Selling Amway is only child abuse if you have children. And you abuse them. I almost forgot that part. And actually, I guess the "selling Amway" part isn't really necessary at all.

So no: selling Amway is not child abuse.

The other day, a man fell off a balcony at a baseball game, trying to catch a baseball. He fell to his death, right in front of his sun. Is attending a baseball game or catching a baseball child abuse?

Child abuse is the new racism.

Or is racism the new child abuse?

Don't go anywhere, I'm going to express an opinion in one of the political forums and come back and let you know which I get accused of.

 

[Joecool]

A better way to phrase the question could be "Can selling Amway under cult like influences lead an otherwise rational person to neglect or abuse their children under the pretense that they are doing good"? And I think the answer is "yes".

 

[madurobob]

A better way to phrase the question could be "Can selling Amway under cult like influences lead an otherwise rational person to neglect or abuse their children under the pretense that they are doing good"? And I think the answer is "yes".

True, but the same could be said of any pursuit that requires a huge investment of time and effort to be successful. Hell, becoming CEO of a fortune 100 company can lead to extreme neglect of one's family.

Amway <> child abuse. People prone to child abuse = child abuse.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say that child abuse is child abuse.

It's sad and disturbing how much that word has been watered down.

 

[Joecool]

Some of the Amway gurus tell their faithful followers that their kids won't miss them when they're (the kids) sleeping. And then when they grow up, you will all be retired, walking beaches of the world while boatloads of cash keep rolling in.

Sadly, noone seems to ask why these people (retired and wealthy) do not seem to exist. Even the biggest triple ripple mega diamonds are all still working as far as I know.

 

[madurobob]

Sadly, noone seems to ask why these people (retired and wealthy) do not seem to exist. Even the biggest triple ripple mega diamonds are all still working as far as I know.

I've met Bill Britt a few times; worked on his house back when I was an electrician/alarm system guy. Although mega rich and successful, he still worked a lot and never seemed to be able to "turn off" and just relax. Of course, thats probably the type of personality that put him on top of Amway in the first place.

Thats probably the key to any entrepreneurial undertaking. Anyone who dreams of spending weeks on the beach doing nothing is lazy, and lazy won't win you business. To do well you have to live/eat/sleep/dream your business and put everything you have into it. Its not for everyone.... and certainly not for (lazy ol') me.

 

[Joecool]

I've met Bill Britt a few times; worked on his house back when I was an electrician/alarm system guy. Although mega rich and successful, he still worked a lot and never seemed to be able to "turn off" and just relax. Of course, thats probably the type of personality that put him on top of Amway in the first place.

Thats probably the key to any entrepreneurial undertaking. Anyone who dreams of spending weeks on the beach doing nothing is lazy, and lazy won't win you business. To do well you have to live/eat/sleep/dream your business and put everything you have into it. Its not for everyone.... and certainly not for (lazy ol') me.

Thanks for sharing that perspective. It's true that someone who reaches the diamond level must work their tails off and those who are that driven with "type A" personalities have different motivations than those who want to retire in 2-5 years and doing nothing.

I agree that people who want to ditch their jobs in a few years and do nothing are probably less likely to succeed than others.

However, I do believe that some diamonds work because they simply do not have the income and resources to retire and live the lifestyle they portray in big meetings and functions.

 

[Jack Astor]

I wouldn't call selling Amway child abuse, but it is definitely friend abuse. It's also self abuse. I'm fairly new here, and I'm guessing someone has likely posted this link before - but this describes at least one person's account of how selling Amway can affect one's family.

From my experiences with Amway, and my observations from friends who got involved, I'd say run like hell from that organization.

 

[madurobob]

However, I do believe that some diamonds work because they simply do not have the income and resources to retire and live the lifestyle they portray in big meetings and functions.

No doubt. For the majority of them it is really nothing more than a job and they are doing as much work and living as much hand-to-mouth as any of those suckers with jobs they talk about. And, their numbers are surely dwarfed by those that believed the dream, tried it for a couple of years then walked away disillusioned.

My only real exposure to Amway was watching my best friend from HS go through it in his 30s. He fell really hard for it and was very gung ho for a couple of years. By his fifth year he was becoming jaded and cynical. After seven years he told them to screw themselves, bought an auto hauler and now makes more money and is much happier delivering used cars throughout Florida. And, neither of his kids seem too abused to me

 

[Joecool]

No doubt. For the majority of them it is really nothing more than a job and they are doing as much work and living as much hand-to-mouth as any of those suckers with jobs they talk about. And, their numbers are surely dwarfed by those that believed the dream, tried it for a couple of years then walked away disillusioned.

My only real exposure to Amway was watching my best friend from HS go through it in his 30s. He fell really hard for it and was very gung ho for a couple of years. By his fifth year he was becoming jaded and cynical. After seven years he told them to screw themselves, bought an auto hauler and now makes more money and is much happier delivering used cars throughout Florida. And, neither of his kids seem too abused to me

I did get involved (hey, we all make mistakes right?) and I achieved a level right below platinum aka direct distributor and I made nothing. Any bonus I received was basically channeled upline because my trusted and caring mentors (upline) advised me that the secret to long term success was to channel resources into buying more training materials. After a few months and some other personal factors, I quit.

In Amway, the sales force is basically comprised of unpaid salespeople who work on commission. It's great for Amway but not so great for the individuals. The problems are compounded for those who get sucked into the training program.

 

[madurobob]

The problems are compounded for those who get sucked into the training program.

In my (rather uninformed) opinion, this is where the real money is in Amway. The soap and vitamins and everything else is a red herring for the real "product" which is training materials sold downline. Of course your uplines want you to believe in the training - thats their only real source of income. The trick is to weedle your way into the training racket.

 

[Joecool]

In my (rather uninformed) opinion, this is where the real money is in Amway. The soap and vitamins and everything else is a red herring for the real "product" which is training materials sold downline. Of course your uplines want you to believe in the training - thats their only real source of income. The trick is to weedle your way into the training racket.

Your opinion is spot on. The only reason why they need products is to avoid the illegal pyramid charge. The demand for products are artificially inflated because many Amwayers "buy from themselves". I believe there was a court case where it was revealed that there is 1 customer for every 4 IBOs. And it's very likely that those few customers are simply sympathetic family and friends of IBOs.

The real money is made from the functions and other materials. Easy to make that conclusion because the mark up is much higher on training than it is on Amway products.

 

[icerat]

In my (rather uninformed) opinion, this is where the real money is in Amway. The soap and vitamins and everything else is a red herring for the real "product" which is training materials sold downline. Of course your uplines want you to believe in the training - thats their only real source of income. The trick is to weedle your way into the training racket.

How do you explain average incomes excluding any income from training materials of over $600,000/yr.

Is that not "real money"?

 

[marplots]

How do you explain average incomes excluding any income from training materials of over $600,000/yr.

Is that not "real money"?

Well, considering you are averaging people who have 10,000 workers under them (also an average), it's not that impressive.

For Google, even with the top three people making only $1 (one dollar), the average of the top 7 is still more than 10 million each. And they have 24,000 employees. They are not an MLM though, so the comparison probably isn't fair.

I think if I could rustle up a sales force of 10,000 I ought to be able to make $60 bucks on average from each of them -- easy peazy.

 

[icerat]

Well, considering you are averaging people who have 10,000 workers under them (also an average), it's not that impressive.

(1) It's irrelevant to the issue I was addressing. The claim was there's no "real money" from the Amway business.

(2) It's not even remotely true. Do you have any sources to support your assertion the average founders diamond and above has "10,000 workers under them" Or forget workers, how about 10,000 just registered under them?