Is satanism a Catholic invention?

Cainkane1

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http://www.religioustolerance.org/satanis5.htm

Just prior to the inquisition a grroup of Catholic leaders decided Satan worship and witchcraft was going on. Apparently they sat around deciding what to look for. They had the idea that the Lords prayer would be said backwards. The decided a black mass would be performed which included an inverted pentagram and an inverted cross. They said sex orgies would be going on. They even said the witches would be dancing naked in a counter clockwise circle.

Ok investigations were made and none of these things were found. Not to be denied however they conducted witch hunts anyway and the rest is history.

Ok in the meantime all the rituals and beliefs of Satanism were on paper. The Catholics had it all wrote down. The information got to the general public and voila. You have the Satanic religion and we have the Catholics to thank for it.
 
I was totally gonna burn some witches, but then I noticed that they were dancing nude clockwise, the True ChristianTM way.
 
I think the idea of Satanism would have arisen if the Christianity hadn't created the Catholic Church. Mass movements can not exist without an enemy for rally against. Spiritual movements can't exist without a spiritual enemy.
 
And to this very day, 99.9%* of instances of Satan worship are the fevered dreams of the religious.

*62% (+/- 4%) of all statistics are pulled from enterprising posteriors.
 
Did the Catholic Church invent teenagers trying to piss off their parents while looking cool and rebellious to their friends?

No, I don't think so.
 
There was always a small percentage of what had survived the purges of the church, so some of the 'satanic' practices probably were inheritors of the pagan traditions.

However the confessions of people under torture depend on the questions asked.
 
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However the confessions of people under torture depend on the questions asked.


That's an interesting statement. In what way does it depend on the questions asked? Is it the sense that any question asked under torture is practically guaranteed to bring the questioner's desired response?
 
That's an interesting statement. In what way does it depend on the questions asked? Is it the sense that any question asked under torture is practically guaranteed to bring the questioner's desired response?

I think he means....."Did Satan make you do this" - rip goes a thumb nail

Or

"Did pagan rituals make you do this" - rip goes another thumb nail
 
I think he means....."Did Satan make you do this" - rip goes a thumb nail

Or

"Did pagan rituals make you do this" - rip goes another thumb nail

Seeing as how both of this question would elicite the exact same answer from me ("haaaa yes yes I agree I did it, and I also opened the pandora box, everything you want") I would say it is more like "the response of the people under torture don't depend on the question".
 
1 Corinthians 10:20
But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.


So the idea that Satan was being served or worshipped even though unknowingly was in existence prior to the Catholic Church.

Here is an article that attempts to make a distinction between devil worship and satanism.,
http://www.dpjs.co.uk/devil.html

From a biblical standpoint the are one and the same. The only difference is that one openly acknowledges it, while the other rationalizes that it doesn't while actually doing so.
 
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No really. It is a qualification of OTHER gods worshipped by other folk as devil, to paint them in a bad light, in reality those gods offered their own positive rewards.

Whereas satan worship is your own little myth worshipping evil entity. That's waaaay different. For one if you believe in satan that means you believe in JC and gods. And if you do it makes no sense whatsoever to worship satan, knowing that you put yourself on *god* list of naughty forever. That has never made sense except in the small brain of zealous idiot seeing enemy everywhere.

(*) yeah I know about the church of satanism as per 1950.
 
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No really. It is a qualification of OTHER gods worshipped by other folk as devil, to paint them in a bad light, in reality those gods offered their own positive rewards.


Off topic!


Whereas satan worship is your own little myth worshipping evil entity. That's waaaay different. For one if you believe in satan that means you believe in JC and gods. And if you do it makes no sense whatsoever to worship satan, knowing that you put yourself on *god* list of naughty forever. That has never made sense except in the small brain of zealous idiot seeing enemy everywhere.

Please disregard all previous comments.
I'm not sure I get your meaning.
 
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complain to everyone that I am ignoring you?

Because of your constant ignorance of all the good point brought in the evolution thread, and the fact that you admited yourself that you put people on ignore on regular basis, and those list seem to attain huge proportion (or so I feel).

As for the constant attack, there is no attack in my previous post. The "you" was the impersonal grammatic is in "one" , aka "one should never cross a street without looking elft and right".

Sorry if it came as an attack to you, I have the bad habits of not really showing when Im mean "you/non personificated" and "you/yourself"
 
There was always a small percentage of what had survived the purges of the church, so some of the 'satanic' practices probably were inheritors of the pagan traditions.

However the confessions of people under torture depend on the questions asked.

There is no evidence that any pagan practices survived that long, actually, except in the baltic area which was christianized very late. And even then it was practically extinct within 2-3 centuries.

But yes, the key there were the questions asked. Why the Malleus Maleficarum boosted belief in witchcraft was basically that it was a uniform set of "yes"/"no" questions that everyone asked, and every one got a yes to every one of them. (You'd get tortured until you said "yes" anyway.) Which in turn was taken as confirmation that it is an objective thing, since so many people who never knew each other were confessing the same things.

There is no evidence that that list came from anywhere else than Kramer's deranged mind. (Sprenger is thought to not have actually written anything there, and was likely just added as a more respectable authority.)

Also, the actual text doesn't contain any clues to some actual religion or belief. It's largely a work of an extreme mysoginist, and reflects that more than anything else. His justifications for witchcraft there aren't religious or continuation of (by now extinct) pagan traditions, but basically women being weak and carnal and all around evil and eager to sell their soul to the devil for little more than a little sex. An actual description of an ancient religion would have more to do with fertility rituals, appeasing the land spirits, and generally more practical purposes than getting boned by the devil and causing misfortune for the heck of it.

@I Am The Scum: Actually teenagers likely had nothing to do with it. Virtually everyone persecuted was mature by the standards of the time, or most actually old widows. Also the teenage rebellion to be accepted as an adult simply didn't exist at the time, as you'd be considered an adult, with all the responsibilities that come with it, usually actually before you hit puberty.

@Cainkane1:

1. Methinks you give Kramer and Sprenger too much credit, though. While they did formalize the list, the idea that all bad stuff (including diseases, storms, etc) comes from humans who exercise their free will to serve the devil was inherent in Christianity since at least Augustine. And various beliefs to that end existed long before the Malleus Maleficarum, albeit not so elaborate and not such a mass hysteria.

2. I don't think it was as much "leaked" as out in the open from day one. The reason the Malleus Maleficarum caused such a hysteria, was that it was the first such BS compendium to be mass-printed using the newfangled printing press. In the first three decades alone some twenty editions of it were published and sold like hot cakes. Everyone who could read and wanted a copy could get one. Basically it wasn't some secret inquisition manual, but something whose most pernicious effect was "educating" the population at large about the "dangers" of witchcraft.

3. I'm not sure if it's entirely correct to give the RCC the full blame. While Kramer was an inquisitor, and the church does have the complicity of not stopping him, it wasn't an activity particularly sanctioned by the church. Even the papal endorsement included in the book seems to actually be a forgery, and most of the church academics and theologians actually condemned the book. And the Inquisition never got the official duty to hunt witches, and at times was even forbidden to do so. (Most of the church's problem at the time were muslims and jews reverting to their own religion after being baptized, plus these newfangled protestants.) Most of the witch hunters were actually rather secular pyschopaths, or the odd priest overstepping his authority, rather than an RCC policy.
 
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Whereas satan worship is your own little myth worshipping evil entity. That's waaaay different. For one if you believe in satan that means you believe in JC and gods. And if you do it makes no sense whatsoever to worship satan, knowing that you put yourself on *god* list of naughty forever. That has never made sense except in the small brain of zealous idiot seeing enemy everywhere.
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Yes, this is what I've always wondered. In what way does Satanism make sense? How do you choose to go with the wrong team. To the tiny extent that Satanism may truly have been embraced, it seems just more of religiosity that doesn't check itself for internal consistency.
 
That's an interesting statement. In what way does it depend on the questions asked? Is it the sense that any question asked under torture is practically guaranteed to bring the questioner's desired response?
Are you in league with the Devil?

No, no, no, I'm not in league with the Devil!

*wrench* *cracck*

ARE YOU IN LEAGUE WITH THE DEVIL???

Aaargh! Aiiiieee! Yes, yes, okay, I'm in league with the Devil!
 
Seriously now, I would have to say that Satan is an invention of the Abrahamic religions. In general Satan is a part of Christian tradition (although he also has quite a showing in Islam). Satanism therefore would not exist if not for Abrahamism.

Is that even a word? Abrahamism?
 

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